Well, there was a long discussion about that, because it was possible that the universe was expanding or compressing. The reason we know it is permanently expanding is because of the study of the mass of the universe, not because of the law of thermodinamics. And anyway, the law of thermodinamics doesn't apply to ideal objects... would you apply thermodinamics to numbers, to family relations, to feelings, etc?

So what would happen if there be some "law of thermodynamics", but one that applies to both physical and metaphysical?

Last edited by cronodragon (2006-08-28 12:09:07)

Ricky wrote:

And anyway, the law of thermodinamics doesn't apply to ideal objects... would you apply thermodinamics to numbers, to family relations, to feelings, etc?

Would said objects really "exist" if we didn't?

Maybe yes, maybe not, how could we proof a solution for that?

Ricky wrote:

And I believe you misread my first post.  Thermodynamics is the reason why the energy in any proper subset of the universe would approach 0.

Well, I just wanted to keep my question. You are sending my question a trillion of years in the future, and I can't wait so much to know what would happen if in a near time someone proofs (not only thinks that there could be a solution like thermodynamics) that birth and death of everything is based on logic?

Ok, that's what I wanted to know.

On the other hand, returning to thermodynamics, it could be possible that in half a trillion of years we realize that it is possible to travel back in time, and go to a "nice" time.

Maybe those time machines are aware of the time travel paradoxes... and on the other hand, maybe our time is not the "nice" time where they would like to be. Remember there still remains a trillion years to find it out.

cronodragon wrote:

So what would happen if there be some "law of thermodynamics", but one that applies to both physical and metaphysical?

Perhaps you'll find this page interesting.

http://www.pupress.princeton.edu/chapters/s7042.html

Zach wrote:

Then there's always The Paradox. If you bo back in time, would you already have done it as it's already past or would you be crafting a new past, if so, where would the old past where you travelled from go to and would your memories be altered, which could alter them to force you into not making the time-trip and thus erasing the past?

which is where idea of multiplie universes comes in, when you go back in time, and change something, even just by being there, a new universe is started from that point, independant of the one you left. or something along those lines

I don't like the multiverse theory: it would be nice if our universe was unique. I think that a multiverse is a universe without a destiny, just a future with an infinite amount of outcomes. Bleh!

Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I know little about this subject and am mostly hypothesising:
The universe expands at the speed of light, right? Recent research has shown that over billions of years the speed of light has been gradually falling. Does this represent the declining rate of expansion of the universe? When the universe stops expanding, the speed of light has reached 0, and everything stops, temperature reaches absolute zero and time has no meaning. Unless, of course, gravity pulls everything back together, and the universe contracts at the speed of light, which gradually speeds up. This would mean that time would reverse, right? Wouldn't it be weird living in a world where time flows in reverse? Would we even notice it? You'd be born out of a coffin and die in a womb. Creepy.