Math Is Fun Forum
  Discussion about math, puzzles, games and fun.   Useful symbols: ÷ × ½ √ ∞ ≠ ≤ ≥ ≈ ⇒ ± ∈ Δ θ ∴ ∑ ∫ • π ƒ -¹ ² ³ °

You are not logged in.

#1 2012-02-07 16:19:32

aegiziano1
Member
Registered: 2012-02-07
Posts: 10

Permutation Generator

Hey everyone! I was wondering if someone can help me out. I have a math project and need a little help:
problem:
You are to pick five numbers ranging from 1 to 56 and a magic number ranging from 1 to 52. What you have to do is come up with possible combination that have a sum totaling 147. How many combinations are there? What are the combinations?

I was wondering if can help me start the problem   ..... and is there a way to do this on excel or an online program I can use..

Offline

#2 2012-02-07 19:21:32

gAr
Member
Registered: 2011-01-09
Posts: 3,479

Re: Permutation Generator

Hi aegiziano1,

Are the 5 numbers distinct?


"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

Offline

#3 2012-02-07 19:43:31

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 86,302

Re: Permutation Generator

Hi all;

How many combinations are there?

Generating functions can do this.

What are the combinations?

Unless there are only a few then you will need a computer.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

Offline

#4 2012-02-08 03:03:32

aegiziano1
Member
Registered: 2012-02-07
Posts: 10

Re: Permutation Generator

Hi gAr,

Yes sorry the 5 are distinct. No repeating numbers.

Offline

#5 2012-02-08 05:14:01

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 86,302

Re: Permutation Generator

Hi aegiziano1;

How about the magic number? Is it distinct too?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

Offline

#6 2012-02-08 15:56:33

aegiziano1
Member
Registered: 2012-02-07
Posts: 10

Re: Permutation Generator

Gar,

Yes in the fact that you only pick one magic number but may not be distinct from the other five numbers.......
                                        magic#                                 magic#
random ex: 4 15 25 38 27      4     or   5   9  13  32   45       20

Offline

#7 2012-02-08 17:45:08

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 86,302

Re: Permutation Generator

Hi aegiziano1;

I have everything I need except for one thing. You say combinations, so you mean order does not count, For instance:

1,2,3,4,5,137 is the same as 137,2,3,1,5,4.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

Offline

#8 2012-02-09 02:27:58

aegiziano1
Member
Registered: 2012-02-07
Posts: 10

Re: Permutation Generator

Gar,

Yes order does not matter for the 5 number, but the magic number is at the end ....so technically order matters lol... let me know if this is confusing.......... the problem is like picking numbers for the lottery, for example: Mega Million,   and the numbers you pick have to add up to 147

Offline

#9 2012-02-09 02:54:48

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 86,302

Re: Permutation Generator

Hi;

So we have _ _ _ _ _ (magic number)?

Order for the first 5 does not count and magic number on the end. Okay, I think I understand.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

Offline

#10 2012-02-09 16:13:12

aegiziano1
Member
Registered: 2012-02-07
Posts: 10

Re: Permutation Generator

Yes you got it!... Sorry for the confusion ... should have explained it better

Offline

#11 2012-02-09 16:43:36

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 86,302

Re: Permutation Generator

Hi aegiziano1;

I am getting:


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

Offline

#12 2012-02-10 11:36:18

aegiziano1
Member
Registered: 2012-02-07
Posts: 10

Re: Permutation Generator

Hi bobym,

Whats your thought process behind the 42113?

Offline

#13 2012-02-10 14:36:47

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 86,302

Re: Permutation Generator


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

Offline

#14 2012-02-11 00:57:30

gAr
Member
Registered: 2011-01-09
Posts: 3,479

Re: Permutation Generator

Hi all,

bobbym, 42113 is okay for first five digits and a sum of 147. Aren't we supposed to consider the 6th digit also for totaling?

That way, I get:


"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

Offline

#15 2012-02-11 06:28:21

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 86,302

Re: Permutation Generator

Hi gAr;

Yes, you are right that is a clumsy error on my part.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

Offline

#16 2012-02-11 06:33:02

gAr
Member
Registered: 2011-01-09
Posts: 3,479

Re: Permutation Generator

Hi bobbym,

Okay. It happens to me too.


"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

Offline

#17 2012-02-11 06:39:54

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 86,302

Re: Permutation Generator

Hi;

I do not what the heck I was thinking of. Thanks for spotting that! I guess I got too caught up on trying to find a formula. Of course, I had the wrong GF because I was solving the wrong problem!

Hi aegiziano1;

Use gAr's work in post #14, sorry for the error.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

Offline

#18 2012-02-11 06:45:52

gAr
Member
Registered: 2011-01-09
Posts: 3,479

Re: Permutation Generator

You're welcome!
I'll take a break, see you later.


"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

Offline

#19 2012-02-11 06:48:38

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 86,302

Re: Permutation Generator

See you later,my friend.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

Offline

#20 2012-02-11 08:47:15

aegiziano1
Member
Registered: 2012-02-07
Posts: 10

Re: Permutation Generator

Thanks guys I appreciate it!

Offline

#21 2012-02-11 08:50:33

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 86,302

Re: Permutation Generator

Two of us worked hard on this. One of us solved it and the other one worked like a washing machine...


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

Offline

#22 2012-02-11 19:45:13

gAr
Member
Registered: 2011-01-09
Posts: 3,479

Re: Permutation Generator

Enjoyed it.
Hope you wouldn't require the list, which takes about 28 MiB.


"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

Offline

#23 2012-02-13 10:33:02

Labodmin
Member
Registered: 2012-02-13
Posts: 6

Re: Permutation Generator

Dear All
I need help on solving a problem .
I want to arrange numbers
Where there are three names on the vertical side like
  W.  D. A
1
2
3
I want to perm or combine where there are not more than one digit on the vertical role.

Eg.
   W. D. A

1. X
2. X
3. X
Or
   W. D. A
1  x
2.     X
3.          X

Any help please?
Many thanks

Offline

#24 2012-02-13 12:50:01

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 86,302

Re: Permutation Generator

Hi Labodmin;

Welcome to the forum.

I want to arrange numbers

How many numbers are there? Are the numbers different?

If we use the numbers 1,2,3 then we get

I used zeros as space holders so it would line up nice. That is 162 ways.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

Offline

#25 2012-02-14 07:26:35

Labodmin
Member
Registered: 2012-02-13
Posts: 6

Re: Permutation Generator

Many thanks
The numbers am looking to perm will be like
W1,w2,w3,1d,2d,3d,1a,2a,3a
The table is like eg
    W.  D. A
1   X
2.  X
3.       X

Eg of this second table will be wrong
     W   D.  A
1
2
3. X.    X.   X

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB