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## #1 2005-06-02 19:55:58

MathsIsFun
Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,660

### Magic Squares

What is special about the numbers in this woodcut (made by Albrect Durer in 1514):

"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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## #2 2005-06-02 20:16:01

justlookingforthemoment
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Registered: 2005-05-26
Posts: 2,161

### Re: Magic Squares

Let me guess: they're the numbers from 1-16; [answer removed and Yes - You Are Right. MathsIsFun]!

Last edited by MathsIsFun (2005-06-02 20:28:39)

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## #3 2005-06-16 05:59:26

Roraborealis
Member
Registered: 2005-03-17
Posts: 1,594

### Re: Magic Squares

NO! I can't see some numbers!

School is practice for the future. Practice makes perfect. But - nobody's perfect, so why practice?

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## #4 2005-06-16 09:49:46

MathsIsFun
Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,660

### Re: Magic Squares

Top right, below the bell.

"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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## #5 2005-06-16 18:44:47

Roraborealis
Member
Registered: 2005-03-17
Posts: 1,594

### Re: Magic Squares

Yes, I see them, I just can't make out what some of the numbers are, for instance the one above four.

Last edited by Roraborealis (2005-06-16 18:45:46)

School is practice for the future. Practice makes perfect. But - nobody's perfect, so why practice?

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## #6 2005-06-16 20:19:25

justlookingforthemoment
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Registered: 2005-05-26
Posts: 2,161

### Re: Magic Squares

Sorry...did I spoil it for everyone else or did you remove it in time, MathsIsFun?

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## #7 2005-06-16 22:23:38

MathsIsFun
Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,660

### Re: Magic Squares

Not at all spoiled, justlooking, and anyway, you CAN solve them when you want!

Rora, I think the numbers are:

16    3     2   13
5    10   11     8
9      6     7   12
4    15   14     1

Why?

"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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## #8 2005-06-16 22:30:57

justlookingforthemoment
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Registered: 2005-05-26
Posts: 2,161

Phew!

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## #9 2005-06-17 03:12:38

Roraborealis
Member
Registered: 2005-03-17
Posts: 1,594

### Re: Magic Squares

Is it because they all add up to 34 in each row?

School is practice for the future. Practice makes perfect. But - nobody's perfect, so why practice?

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## #10 2005-06-17 11:19:44

MathsIsFun
Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,660

### Re: Magic Squares

How about the columns? And diagonally as well?

"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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## #11 2005-06-17 18:22:36

justlookingforthemoment
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Registered: 2005-05-26
Posts: 2,161

They're magic!

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## #12 2005-06-17 19:00:54

justlookingforthemoment
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Registered: 2005-05-26
Posts: 2,161

### Re: Magic Squares

MathsIsFun wrote:

Albrect Durer

Albrecht Dürer

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## #13 2005-06-17 20:56:26

MathsIsFun
Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,660

### Re: Magic Squares

Entschuldigung !

"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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## #14 2005-06-17 23:34:17

stewie
Member
Registered: 2005-03-28
Posts: 820

### Re: Magic Squares

MathsIsFun wrote:

Top right, below the bell.

I didn't know Zach was in the picture.

HAPPY HAPPY, JOY JOY
Fatboy Slim is the band of the 90s, thats if you want to call it a band because its really a one man name

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## #15 2005-06-18 16:40:26

akshaylovesmaths
Member
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 1

16

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## #16 2005-06-18 19:49:23

MathsIsFun
Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,660

### Re: Magic Squares

Hi akshay, that is a most elegant number. It is 2^4 and also 4^2.

"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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## #17 2005-06-18 20:32:16

Roraborealis
Member
Registered: 2005-03-17
Posts: 1,594

### Re: Magic Squares

MathsIsFun wrote:

How about the columns? And diagonally as well?

I meant to say that, too.

School is practice for the future. Practice makes perfect. But - nobody's perfect, so why practice?

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## #18 2005-06-18 22:28:26

MathsIsFun
Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,660

### Re: Magic Squares

Shows how long (1514) people have had a fascination with the magic of numbers. It stretches back much further of course to the Greeks, Arabsm Chinese, etc. But this is a great example.

I think at the time, such arrangements of numbers had an almost magical significance. (Hence the name Magical Squares?)

"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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## #19 2005-06-18 22:47:44

Mr T
Member
Registered: 2005-03-30
Posts: 1,012

### Re: Magic Squares

stewie wrote:
MathsIsFun wrote:

Top right, below the bell.

I didn't know Zach was in the picture.

sophisticated humour there

I come back stronger than a powered-up Pac-Man
I bought a large popcorn @ the cinema the other day, it was pretty big...some might even say it was "large
Fatboy Slim is a Legend

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## #20 2005-06-19 04:44:26

Roraborealis
Member
Registered: 2005-03-17
Posts: 1,594

### Re: Magic Squares

Oh, why don't you just leave Zach alone? Do you have a problem with his existence?

Last edited by Roraborealis (2005-06-19 04:44:40)

School is practice for the future. Practice makes perfect. But - nobody's perfect, so why practice?

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## #21 2005-06-19 05:28:03

Zach
Member
Registered: 2005-03-23
Posts: 2,075

### Re: Magic Squares

It's a natural human response to be like this when you're intimidated by someone.

Boy let me tell you what:
I bet you didn't know it, but I'm a fiddle player too.
And if you'd care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you.

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## #22 2005-06-19 20:42:31

justlookingforthemoment
Moderator
Registered: 2005-05-26
Posts: 2,161

### Re: Magic Squares

I think they're just jealous of people who speak English.

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## #23 2005-06-22 08:47:12

Mr T
Member
Registered: 2005-03-30
Posts: 1,012

### Re: Magic Squares

I am sensing a sense of hostility towards myself and stewie right now.

I come back stronger than a powered-up Pac-Man
I bought a large popcorn @ the cinema the other day, it was pretty big...some might even say it was "large
Fatboy Slim is a Legend

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## #24 2005-06-22 10:49:05

MathsIsFun
Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,660

### Re: Magic Squares

Hostility? I hope not. I am thinking it is just light banter, or it gets deleted.

"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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## #25 2005-06-30 20:35:25

justlookingforthemoment
Moderator
Registered: 2005-05-26
Posts: 2,161

### Re: Magic Squares

With Rod's magic square above (I see that it's gone missing) any 2x2 group of numbers in a quare that you pick also adds up to 34.

Here is a 5x5 magic square:

``````17   14   6    3    25
8    5    22   19   11
24   16   13   10    2
15   7    4    21   18
1    23   20   12    9``````

It is symmetrical around its centre square, which means if you pick any two numbers which are opposite, they will add up to twice the centre square.

Also, if you tiled a floor with the above magic square, you could select any 5x5 grid and it would still be magic.

Last edited by justlookingforthemoment (2005-06-30 20:41:24)

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