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#26 2006-11-30 01:40:41

Patrick
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Registered: 2006-02-24
Posts: 1,005

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

I think we really need to get the sphere thing right from the beginning. Also, I think it could be interresting if we could have more sphere's, almost like a universe.


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#27 2006-11-30 03:33:27

Toast
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Registered: 2006-10-08
Posts: 1,321

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

I think if we create an entire universe we will have to rely much more on other essential things like intergalactic economy and physics of space travel, and the really tricky bit will be making a game like that accomodate all ability levels.
We could divide galaxies up into galactic sectors which cater for each level of ability.
We could provide mathematical 'quests' and 'discovery missions', as well as virtual maths competitions and races... man... if this gets made it could be so addictive *drools*. It could be the new WoW (albeit a nerdier version tongue).

Last edited by Toast (2006-11-30 03:35:06)

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#28 2006-11-30 08:43:20

MathsIsFun
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Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,535

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

OK, to be a sphere we need to master the coordinates so that I can do a database lookup to find all nearby people and objects.

If the coordinates are in degrees, then a location on the sphere could be (120,40). Would the degrees go from 0-360, or -180 to 180 ? Or radians, or rotations?

If the coordinates are like latitude/longitude we have the rather difficult problem that distances vs angles are not uiniform. For example longitudes come together at the poles.

But that space and planet thing sounds cool. Just ... how do we do it?


"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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#29 2006-11-30 19:33:07

Devantè
Real Member
Registered: 2006-07-14
Posts: 6,400

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

MathsIsFun wrote:

Devanté: the "é" drives it crazy ... I will try some things.

Ah...it's always when I use special characters it ends up showing up as an alt code.

But nice layout of the game itself. The fact that you can see others makes it even better.

I have no suggestions for now, but I will have soon. smile

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#30 2006-11-30 20:45:48

justlookingforthemoment
Moderator
Registered: 2005-05-26
Posts: 2,161

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

Oooooh, ooh, oooooh!

Geez, listen to me. Well, that's basically all my input for the moment, but I will think about it.

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#31 2006-11-30 22:39:47

mathsyperson
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Registered: 2005-06-22
Posts: 4,900

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

Heehee, justlookingforth. That actually sounds kind of OK. And you've somehow managed to get yourself on there twice as well.

Also, I found that I could type a few letters into the coordinate system. Most were disabled, but I could use a, I, m and t. Because in that font, I = l, I was able to put that I was located at (malt, malt).
It wouldn't let me have it when I refreshed though. sad


Why did the vector cross the road?
It wanted to be normal.

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#32 2006-11-30 22:45:18

MathsIsFun
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Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,535

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

You are the best testers!

BTW justlookingforth is exactly 16 characters ... the same size as the data field. What a coincidence. Maybe I had better increase the size?


"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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#33 2006-12-01 09:48:14

MathsIsFun
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Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,535

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

I have been thinking that a torus may work better.

Imagine a sheet of paper ... join the top edge to the bottom (you get a cylinder), then join the left to the right (you get a torus). In practice the paper gets all crinkled on the second step due to curving, but we could "ignore" that and just say the top joins the bottom and the left joins the right.


"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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#34 2006-12-01 17:07:38

justlookingforthemoment
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Registered: 2005-05-26
Posts: 2,161

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

Huh, how do I change my position? I can't move from 0, 0. I type my coordinates in and press refresh, but the position in the box doesn't change.

Torus sounds good. justlookingforth sounds good, too.

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#35 2006-12-01 18:22:35

MathsIsFun
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Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,535

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

Try now ... Oh! and we have a Devant and a Devant%E9. The joys of software development.

So, let us say we have coordinates that go from 0 to 360, then "wrap" around again to 0. In two dimensions. We could have a third "coordinate" so we can have different Torii. Or possibly for flying in space.


"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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#36 2006-12-01 18:37:34

justlookingforthemoment
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Registered: 2005-05-26
Posts: 2,161

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

There's two of me too, now. Yes, I think it's working now for me but in a weird way. To see the text at the bottom of the dialog box I have to highlight the text and continue dragging down the text, until it scrolls.

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#37 2006-12-07 15:20:48

MathsIsFun
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Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,535

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

I might give a little more time to this - maybe make the player a dot on a graph, so you can move around.

I am still looking for help and suggestions from the imaginative and creative ...


"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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#38 2006-12-07 19:30:38

Toast
Real Member
Registered: 2006-10-08
Posts: 1,321

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

I think my (and others') ideas would be more useful if I actually understood more about the overall plan you have in mind. I mean, I could put down a lot of suggestions which may or may not be related to the plan you have in mind and hence a great majority would be irrelevant.
You must have firm contention to write a good essay, and I think it needs to be better defined.

Last edited by Toast (2006-12-07 19:32:38)

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#39 2006-12-07 20:17:42

MathsIsFun
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Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,535

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

Hmm ... well, I don't have a plan, really. I was hoping that it would be a community project. But since it will be hosted on the forum then I need to handle the "back end" and that is what I tested out.

My only wish is that it is also educational. But "play" is often educational anyway, so if the world we create rewards mathematical skills then that will be enough.

So perhaps our problem is that the choices are just too broad?

BTW, found some characters: http://www.complete-characters.com/order.htm (anyone got a spare 3 grand?). But we don't have to be people.


"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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#40 2006-12-13 23:36:37

MathsIsFun
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Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,535

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

Just an update.

I have been looking at the number and quality of MMORPG (Role Playing Games) - these guys spend millions with a staff of artists, designers, coders, etc, and it is an economy worth billions. The games mostly center around walking through a pre-developed landscape, interacting with the other players (sometimes violently of course) and the gameplay has been cleverly designed too.

To build such a game we would start with a graphics engine, define landscapes, buildings, characters, etc, write lots of code for game play and tie it all together somehow. Lots of time and effort, and then "we too" can have "yet another" MMORPG.

But I was hoping for something different ... more "pure" like mathematics itself. Pre-designed characters, hills and valleys seems a bit "fixed".

And it seems a bit cheesy to walk around doing math tests to get to the next level.

So ... maybe something different? With rules and environment that develop as we go?

====

Anyway, I am trying to do some basic coding for 3D transformations. I want to be able to see a 3D shape ahead of me, and then turn around and have it move appropriately. With perspective.

I am doing it in Flash (well, Swishmax), but I know from previous experience that Flash is really slow with calcs and so may not be the right choice for later on (unless Flash 9 is much better).


"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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#41 2006-12-15 23:00:01

MathsIsFun
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Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,535

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

Another update ... a VERY basic 3D flying thing: 3D Test

You will have to click on the demo first (this is always true of Flash games, but you never notice it because people have a "Click Here to Start button")

Then you can use the arrow keys to move up down left and right. Use PageUp and PageDown for speed. z and x rotate clockwise and anticlockwise.

Took days to get this to work - you have to get the matrix transformations just right or it either does weird stuff or nothing at all.

And there is still a strange bug with speed - after rotating around it seems to get the speed vectors wrong. I haven't figured why yet.

But it is fun enough to fly around for a few minutes. Or maybe just one minute.


"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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#42 2006-12-16 11:44:14

justlookingforthemoment
Moderator
Registered: 2005-05-26
Posts: 2,161

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

Very nice!

With speed, I found it very slow to respond to my keystrokes. I had to hold down the pageup key for a long time before I started moving.

And once I had zoomed off into the greyness, I found it almost impossible to return to my original spot!

But these are not real problems ... it's great!

Well done!

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#43 2006-12-16 15:19:51

MathsIsFun
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Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,535

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

Yeah, it is very basic. And slow. Flash is very slow at calculations - at least 100 times slower than java. But I am trying to prove concepts here. So the game migth be in java, or in Flash 9 (which I am told is much faster).


"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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#44 2006-12-16 20:15:23

Devantè
Real Member
Registered: 2006-07-14
Posts: 6,400

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

Very good. Still only basic, but very impressive.

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#45 2006-12-16 22:01:13

Toast
Real Member
Registered: 2006-10-08
Posts: 1,321

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

Yes, well done MathsIsFun,
The toast approves. up

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#46 2006-12-16 23:24:23

MathsIsFun
Administrator
Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,535

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

Thanks!

If someone can figure out the pattern of what goes wrong with the "thrust" vectors it may help me to debug it. (You can now see how much thrust in the top right corner. )

An obvious error is the fact that by rotating using z and x, you find yourself going backwards! Or sideways.

BTW: if you give about 10 thrust and then turn left "around" the first cube (using just left and right keys), you can then do "figure eights" around the others, back and forth. It almost feels like flying.


"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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#47 2006-12-18 02:13:28

LQ
Real Member
Registered: 2006-12-04
Posts: 1,281

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

Teleporting is hard to comprehend. Why not have a person and phone boot at every building? Smoke signals? Arrow messaging?

Last edited by LQ (2006-12-18 02:15:08)


I see clearly now, the universe have the black dots, Thus I am on my way of inventing this remedy...

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#48 2006-12-18 04:21:12

Toast
Real Member
Registered: 2006-10-08
Posts: 1,321

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

Huh?

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#49 2006-12-18 04:24:31

Devantè
Real Member
Registered: 2006-07-14
Posts: 6,400

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

LQ wrote:

Teleporting is hard to comprehend. Why not have a person and phone boot at every building? Smoke signals? Arrow messaging?

Either you have posted in the wrong thread or you've lost me.

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#50 2006-12-18 20:37:19

LQ
Real Member
Registered: 2006-12-04
Posts: 1,281

Re: The MacArthur Foundation

MathsIsFun wrote:

Commerce would help. You could buy cheaply then travel (teleport?) to sell at a profit. Get your calcs wrong and lose money. 500 bricks at 0.43 each, 10% discount for payment in the next 10 seconds!

It makes me think that the game should be seeded with "drones" (AI players) until we get a few hundred real players.

Perhaps you could build an AI that "sells your profit" for you, and then, after enough time, the robot becomes free and becomes a player just like you. Is that somewhat plausible?

Sorry about last post, I missunderstood you.

Last edited by LQ (2006-12-18 20:38:00)


I see clearly now, the universe have the black dots, Thus I am on my way of inventing this remedy...

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