Discussion about math, puzzles, games and fun.   Useful symbols: ÷ × ½ √ ∞ ≠ ≤ ≥ ≈ ⇒ ± ∈ Δ θ ∴ ∑ ∫ • π ƒ -¹ ² ³ °

You are not logged in.

## #226 2012-12-28 09:00:34

bobbym
Administrator

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

How is that supposed to clear up anything when that was obviously written by you? Quoting yourself does not clear things up.

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

## #227 2012-12-28 09:04:42

21122012
Power Member

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

Bob,

You that don't understand, what the line which call the graf of a function y=f(x) of value postpone for the OY axes has no relation to function? But Calculus considers behavior of this line and considers that observes behavior of the y=f(x) function. You that don't understand that it is falsification?

"The conditions imposed on functions, become a source of difficulties which will manage to be avoided only by means of new researches about the principles of integral calculus"

Thomas Ioannes Stiltes. ...                                                 I made it!

## #228 2012-12-28 09:09:17

bob bundy
Moderator

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

I can understand the yellow part.

What is the blue?

Bob

Uploaded Images

You cannot teach a man anything;  you can only help him find it within himself..........Galileo Galilei

## #229 2012-12-28 09:22:40

21122012
Power Member

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

area of red color

"The conditions imposed on functions, become a source of difficulties which will manage to be avoided only by means of new researches about the principles of integral calculus"

Thomas Ioannes Stiltes. ...                                                 I made it!

## #230 2012-12-28 09:44:48

21122012
Power Member

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

Sense of the Graf of function as lines in the Cartesian system of coordinates only one:

division of one of these three squares:

at two parts, are other two areas.

Point of graf of function divides the line which is derivative (xy)' quare S=xy at vertical: x'y and horizontal: y'x pieces.

"The conditions imposed on functions, become a source of difficulties which will manage to be avoided only by means of new researches about the principles of integral calculus"

Thomas Ioannes Stiltes. ...                                                 I made it!

## #231 2012-12-28 09:48:13

bob bundy
Moderator

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

OK.  This makes sense now.

This is all understood.

so

So where is the error please?

Bob

You cannot teach a man anything;  you can only help him find it within himself..........Galileo Galilei

## #232 2012-12-28 10:11:04

21122012
Power Member

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

#### bob bundy wrote:

OK.  This makes sense now.

This is all understood.

so

So where is the error please?

Bob

Perfectly! The first sensible that I at you saw this!

Green line:

http://vladimir938.eto-ya.com/files/201 … 8.12-2.jpg

is

Do you agree?

Last edited by 21122012 (2012-12-28 10:27:33)

"The conditions imposed on functions, become a source of difficulties which will manage to be avoided only by means of new researches about the principles of integral calculus"

Thomas Ioannes Stiltes. ...                                                 I made it!

## #233 2012-12-28 10:54:54

bob bundy
Moderator

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

I do not understand this last part

OK so far.

And why should F' be the addition of these two lines anyway?

Bob

You cannot teach a man anything;  you can only help him find it within himself..........Galileo Galilei

## #234 2012-12-28 11:15:27

21122012
Power Member

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

#### bob bundy wrote:

And why should F' be the addition of these two lines anyway?

Bob

because

Bob!

Descartes decided to present a cube in the form of a rectangle:

Understand?

Look #152 drawing at the left.

So are under construction

on the plane and in space.

These are two interpretations of the same process:

Last edited by 21122012 (2012-12-28 11:16:06)

"The conditions imposed on functions, become a source of difficulties which will manage to be avoided only by means of new researches about the principles of integral calculus"

Thomas Ioannes Stiltes. ...                                                 I made it!

## #235 2012-12-29 00:39:48

bob bundy
Moderator

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

because

I don't mind

And

is good for the product rule.

But then it seems to fall apart.

Your green line is the semi-perimeter of the rectangle.

Why should F' be the semi-perimeter?  I can think of no good reason.

And the result you get for the horizontal line (2xo^2) isn't what you have on your diagram.  You have defined this distance to be x0.

What do you think this green line is?

Bob

You cannot teach a man anything;  you can only help him find it within himself..........Galileo Galilei

## #236 2012-12-29 06:07:07

21122012
Power Member

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

#### bob bundy wrote:

What do you think this green line is?
Bob

It is the key moment for Structural Analysis. As soon as you will understand this moment then you will understand all the rest.
This main thing to what we went all this time.

We use a substitution method: http://vladimir938.eto-ya.com/files/201 … -10.12.jpg

SOLID GEOMETRY

PLANIMETRICS:

It is necessary to stop. Everything is clear?

"The conditions imposed on functions, become a source of difficulties which will manage to be avoided only by means of new researches about the principles of integral calculus"

Thomas Ioannes Stiltes. ...                                                 I made it!

## #237 2012-12-29 06:16:37

bob bundy
Moderator

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

You are in danger of repeating your earlier mistake;  the one that led to me withdrawing from this thread.  If you won't answer my questions about what you are trying to explain, then I might as well give up.

Bob

You cannot teach a man anything;  you can only help him find it within himself..........Galileo Galilei

## #238 2012-12-29 06:20:47

21122012
Power Member

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

You are in vain so aggressive. To show that such the green line on graphics I have to show you its analog in geometry. I want to make it but gradually that we understood each other. If you refuse to watch my reasonings I won't be able to answer your question.

"The conditions imposed on functions, become a source of difficulties which will manage to be avoided only by means of new researches about the principles of integral calculus"

Thomas Ioannes Stiltes. ...                                                 I made it!

## #239 2012-12-29 06:39:47

bob bundy
Moderator

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

But I don't understand your reasoning.  That is why I ask questions.

Bob

You cannot teach a man anything;  you can only help him find it within himself..........Galileo Galilei

## #240 2012-12-29 07:14:47

21122012
Power Member

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

#### bob bundy wrote:

But I don't understand your reasoning.  That is why I ask questions.

Bob

What in post 236 you don't understand?

"The conditions imposed on functions, become a source of difficulties which will manage to be avoided only by means of new researches about the principles of integral calculus"

Thomas Ioannes Stiltes. ...                                                 I made it!

## #241 2012-12-29 08:21:19

bob bundy
Moderator

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

It is you who do not understand.

7 times you have asked me what it is I don't understand on this thread and the other.

7 times I have told you.

Each time you tell me a new thing.

That is no help to me.

If you don't answer my questions I shall give up on your thread.

Why should F' be the semi-perimeter?

Your reply should start: "F' is the semi perimeter because ........."

What do you think this green line is?

Your reply should start: "The green line is .........."

Last time of asking.

Thank you in anticipation.

Bob

You cannot teach a man anything;  you can only help him find it within himself..........Galileo Galilei

## #242 2012-12-29 08:47:45

21122012
Power Member

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

#### bob bundy wrote:

"F' is the semi perimeter because ........."

F' is not the semi perimeter, because

points of which the top horizontal piece consists aren't equal to points of which the bottom horizontal piece though pieces have identical length consists. But they have various value. I want to explain you it but you refuse to watch my conclusions.

Now I will show one of keys which underlie Structural Analysis creation. The detailed description isn't present, but animation is quite obvious.

Let's choose dependence from each other two variables, convenient as a bright example. Functionally this dependence is expressed by a formula:

Let's show the image of this dependence in a geometrical and graphic look.

In a geometrical look this dependence will be expressed in the circle square with a variable radius:

and in a graphic look in the form of a vertical piece of variable length:

Because the circle and a piece - the elements which are strongly differing from each other, process of integration:

will be represented in both cases differently.

The given animation will help to compare each other elements geometrical and elements of graphic interpretation of processes of integration:

Last edited by 21122012 (2012-12-29 15:00:58)

"The conditions imposed on functions, become a source of difficulties which will manage to be avoided only by means of new researches about the principles of integral calculus"

Thomas Ioannes Stiltes. ...                                                 I made it!

## #243 2012-12-29 15:03:06

21122012
Power Member

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

Bob bundy look this

Hi bobbym.
give  me please the your assessment of the animation created by me and sense which it opens

"The conditions imposed on functions, become a source of difficulties which will manage to be avoided only by means of new researches about the principles of integral calculus"

Thomas Ioannes Stiltes. ...                                                 I made it!

## #244 2012-12-30 07:34:25

bob bundy
Moderator

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

You started this thread saying "one of the many errors of calculus".

I have seen three of your errors.  In each case you have not applied calculus theory correctly.  I have explained why and you have stubbornly argued with me.

But I have offered many links to websites to support my argument, and you have ignored these.  If this is the way you have behaved on other forums, then I am not surprised that you have not succeeded there.

I will teach you how to do calculus if you are willing to listen.  Once you can use it correctly, it will be interesting to see if any 'errors' remain.

I am assuming that you have invented 'structural analysis' yourself.  Clearly, you understand what you mean and have spent a long time working on it.

You post complicated diagrams, with annotation in Russian, and often with formulas that are not defined properly.  Do you really think I can understand any of your theory?  If you wish to promote this theory you need to present it properly; in the way that mathematicains have done for thousands of years.

Start with your axioms.
Give simple examples.
Pause, while your pupil asks questions and tries to master the basics.
Set questions that are within the grasp of your pupil, so they can move forward slowly.
Increase the level of difficulty only as your pupil gets better.

I hope you find this advice helpful

Bob

You cannot teach a man anything;  you can only help him find it within himself..........Galileo Galilei

## #245 2012-12-30 08:52:29

21122012
Power Member

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

#### bob bundy wrote:

You started this thread saying "one of the many errors of calculus".

I have seen three of your errors.  In each case you have not applied calculus theory correctly.  I have explained why and you have stubbornly argued with me.

If there are two theories and they in three moments contradict each other, each of two theories has the right yet these moments errors of other theory won't consider is found out what of theories is true. Correctness of any theory can be proved by only one way - result of experience. I made this experiment:
http://vladimir938.eto-ya.com/files/2012/12/key.gif

#### bob bundy wrote:

But I have offered many links to websites to support my argument, and you have ignored these.  If this is the way you have behaved on other forums, then I am not surprised that you have not succeeded there.

I didn't arrive here from Mars. That is written in references which you to me gave I I know not worse you. To me on Calculus of the teacher always put only the highest marks. I didn't ignore them but they in any way don't disprove my arguments THEY to THEM CONTRADICT as has to be in two contradicting theories.

As for other forums that I am not guilty in that that in the world only one percent of homo sapiense and 99 percent of humanoid monkeys.

#### bob bundy wrote:

I will teach you how to do calculus if you are willing to listen.  Once you can use it correctly, it will be interesting to see if any 'errors' remain.

I am assuming that you have invented 'structural analysis' yourself.  Clearly, you understand what you mean and have spent a long time working on it.

You post complicated diagrams, with annotation in Russian, and often with formulas that are not defined properly.  Do you really think I can understand any of your theory?  If you wish to promote this theory you need to present it properly; in the way that mathematicains have done for thousands of years.

Start with your axioms.
Give simple examples.
Pause, while your pupil asks questions and tries to master the basics.
Set questions that are within the grasp of your pupil, so they can move forward slowly.
Increase the level of difficulty only as your pupil gets better.

I hope you find this advice helpful

Bob

Look how many thousand people participated in mathematics creation. And you want that I one replaced thousands. From me it is enough of that that I found mistakes and offered the correct direction. the rest will be done by other people.

P.S. You will be able to teach nothing me besides that you will repeat that that is in textbooks. And that that am in textbooks I already read.

I gave an example of experience which showed that graf of function y=f (x) and y=f(x) aren't connected in any way with each other except for values of derivative two various functions in curve points. THESE ARE VARIOUS FUNCTIONS!

"The conditions imposed on functions, become a source of difficulties which will manage to be avoided only by means of new researches about the principles of integral calculus"

Thomas Ioannes Stiltes. ...                                                 I made it!

## #246 2012-12-30 12:51:46

bobbym
Administrator

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

As for other forums that I am not guilty in that that in the world only one percent of homo sapiense and 99 percent of humanoid monkeys.

So the whole world is made up of 99% humanoid monkeys as you call them. I know a lot of people who share that opinion. Each one of them carefully leaves himself out of the 99%. You can not seriously hope to persuade people that you have just called monkeys. You say you do not come from Mars, I am not so sure. You wonder why you are bounced from forums. You call people monkeys and then can not understand their reaction towards you?

It is sad that you think you are barred from these forums because of the briliance of your ideas rather than your callous comments.

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

## #247 2012-12-30 13:16:31

21122012
Power Member

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

Here, as practically everywhere you confuse cause and effect. Me throw out from forums without understanding simple reasonings. Them don't accept only because they don't coincide with that that THEY got used to repeat. Therefore I draw a conclusion that if THEY can't have the thoughts but only to repeat strangers that they do that that call "repeat as a monkey". Anything personal only fact ascertaining!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvPpAPIIZyo

Last edited by 21122012 (2012-12-30 13:23:18)

"The conditions imposed on functions, become a source of difficulties which will manage to be avoided only by means of new researches about the principles of integral calculus"

Thomas Ioannes Stiltes. ...                                                 I made it!

## #248 2012-12-30 23:36:49

bobbym
Administrator

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

Hmmmm, I do not see how you can ever progress relying solely on your input. Unless you are Isaac Newton there is and always will be many people smarter than you are. In your case, some of them are on this forum.

I have seen quotes by Bruno and Galileo and now Aristotle. It is fine to reason for yourself, to stand on your own two feet, but a man has got to know his limitations. Got to know when he needs help, got to be able to admit when he is wrong.

Now about this isomerous space, what is it?

P.S. You will be able to teach nothing me besides that you will repeat that that is in textbooks. And that that am in textbooks I already read.

You have read every textbook? You know everything inside of them? A good textbook is something you hold on to for life. Studying it for life.

On the lighter side, here in the good ole USA if anyone called me a humanoid monkey I would clobber him with my bunch of ripe bananas.

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

## #249 2012-12-31 01:41:50

scientia
Full Member

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

#### bobbym wrote:

Unless you are Isaac Newton there is and always will be many people smarter than you are.

And even Isaac Newton himself admitted that there were people smarter than he was – giants on whose shoulders he stood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_o … _of_giants

## #250 2012-12-31 01:48:26

bobbym
Administrator

Offline

### Re: New mathematic on english

Hi;

Some historians think that statement has a double meaning. They think he was
ridiculing Robert Hooke who was a hunchback. In their interpretation Newton was saying I am standing on his back and crushing him.

I am reading it now in the page you sent me. I remember coming across it in a book a while back but do not remember the title.

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

## Board footer

Powered by FluxBB