Stangerzv wrote:

Hi Testu

Basically nobody knows whether this universe is finite or infinite but many thinks it is infinite as the universe still expanding and the birth or stars still occurring. If you look into the formation of this universe, in the beginning, the volume of this universe is zero with infinite density (singularity). From zero to something after t=0, since the density is infinite, the formation of mass of particles should be also infinite. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_singularity . In other words, all the things or masses in this entire universe could be confined into a single piece of thing which has the volume near zero after t=0s. If this is a singularity, then the universe is infinite or maybe so big that we couldn't simply comprehend because there is a place in this universe where the space expanded further away way before a light could reach it. How big this universe is, perhaps as big as 1/0 (division by zero).

As I said before, scientists already know that the universe is finite, although still expanding. The number of particles is roughly around 10^80. Just because somewhere in the history of the universe its density was infinite doesn't mean that it has either infinite size or volume.

I am afraid that is not what 1 / 0 means.

1/0 is not anything. It is undefined. You cannot split an apple into no pieces.

Well! If you draw a curve of y=1/x, you would see that y would be infinite as x approaches 0 but it would never touch y-axis indicating infinite value of y. Same with the so called 0.99999..recurring, if you draw a curve of y=0.9999..recurring..you would see, even if x approaches infinity y will never intersect line y=1. I bet to differ with many people regarding infinity. For example, in mathematics, to make sure it is true not enough to prove it up to billions or trillions terms but should be all term even up to infinity. This is why mathematicians developed method of induction. When you prove x=0.9999..recurring=1, you simply multiply it with 10 and then minus the original one. Before we talk it to the infinity why not we talk it on a finite scale. Lets say n=decimals points, when you have like n=1 trillion decimals and multiplying 0.999..recurring(up to 1 trillion decimals after 0) with 10, you will get 9.99..recurring( 1 trillion minus 1 point of decimals after first digit 9). Then, by subtracting the ten fold of x with original x, you will get 9x=8.999..(recurring 9 and ends with digit 1). Solving the equation, you will never get x=1. Now, consider infinite recurring 9, when you multiple x with 10, you take infinity as an integer yet you contradict the basic fundamental of math dealing with numbers. When you multiple a number with 10, you simply shifted a decimal point forwards and leaving the trailing digit as zero. For example, when you have x=0.9999  and multiply by 10, you will get 10x=9.9990 because a decimal point had being shifted forwards yet in proving 0.9999..recurring=1 you simply abuse the basic mathematics as if x=0.9999  and multiply by 10=10x=9.9999 (The last digit should be zero and not 9). The same thing happens in the infinite series, if you want to take it as a number not as a concept then you have to obey the fundamental of mathematics operations. If you obey this fundamental you will get 10x-x=9x=8.9999999..(recurring) ends with 1. Thus x/=1. When people talk about infinite series, they simply abuse it. To them infinity-1 is equal to infinity even though it is one less. Yet they simply multiply infinite series with integer and do basic mathematical operation without considering it could be false. This is how Euler linked his prime numbers with Riemann's Zeta Function or how Ramanujan got 1+1+1....=-1/12 or 1-1+1-1+1...=-1/12 because people don't believe in even or odd infinity yet they believe infinite series could be multiplied by integers to suit their ideas. If they could abuse it, then why not I say, Riemman's Zeta function C(2)=4 not (pi^2)/6. The value of 1/0 could be defined on certain circumstances because the creation of this universe after the big bang tells us a different thing,  at t=0, the volume of universe is zero with infinite density or density=mass/volume=>density=mass x 1/0 from this relationship we get the existence of this entire universe. Indicating that 1/0 is not undefined because it created something which we could see or perceive now as observable universe! Machines have simple lives, they only knows 1 and 0 and when they see 1/0, the simply say error:)

Last edited by Stangerzv (2012-06-29 22:21:01)

1/0 is No Different to 1-0 or 1x0 or 1+0 Nothing is being Calculated into the Start Value of 1

If 1/0 Ect. is Not Possible!? Then the The Theory of Math is Flawed!

It is Very Strange that Something that Can be Seen to be Calculated is Not Accepted in Math!? ...

But Estimated Math with No 100% Guaranteed Answer is Accepted! ??


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Quote: "But if you think that 1=/=0.999... then could you tel me what is the value of 1-0.999... ? "

Reply... 1-0.999...  = (0.9... = 0.1...) Further on...(0.99... = 0.01...) Further on...(0.999...= 0.001...) Conclusion there will Always be a Difference!!

Last edited by TESTU (2012-06-30 20:22:28)

Nothing to do with What You Call Something!...It's Logic to Understand How Things/Math Works!

There are Double Standards in Math that Don't Cut the Mustard!!

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Math Exceptions Invent New Ideas!!

You are Just Learning!!

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Quote: "But .99999999... still equals 1"

Reply Can you Give any Solid Evidence for your Quote above!?

posts #999 and 1001.

Describe any mathematical concept by listing its properties.  If you have something new, check out what would be be logical and consistent with what has gone before.   

It is not compulsory to join the crowd.  You can choose which numbers to use.  Some people get through their whole life with just a few counting numbers.  The person who numbered the houses in my street clearly was superstitious because they left out number 13.  Once you know that it's quite easy to find the house you want so, clearly, in this context, you can get by without 13.

In my world 0.9999999 for ever is useful so I hang on to it.  And, as it behaves just like 1, I'm have no difficulty saying they're the same.  You can do that with any area of maths.  Pick the bits you want and leave out the rest.  There's a UK exam course that leaves out complex numbers.  For the questions they set , it works, although occasionally quadratics have no solutions. 

One day someone will come up with a new bit of maths, that no one before knew existed, and we'll all say "Oh yes, the Universe makes much more sense now !"  Until that day we'll just have to settle for 42.   


Bob