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## #1026 2012-06-28 23:21:26

anonimnystefy
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

#### Stangerzv wrote:

Hi Testu

Basically nobody knows whether this universe is finite or infinite but many thinks it is infinite as the universe still expanding and the birth or stars still occurring. If you look into the formation of this universe, in the beginning, the volume of this universe is zero with infinite density (singularity). From zero to something after t=0, since the density is infinite, the formation of mass of particles should be also infinite. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_singularity . In other words, all the things or masses in this entire universe could be confined into a single piece of thing which has the volume near zero after t=0s. If this is a singularity, then the universe is infinite or maybe so big that we couldn't simply comprehend because there is a place in this universe where the space expanded further away way before a light could reach it. How big this universe is, perhaps as big as 1/0 (division by zero).

As I said before, scientists already know that the universe is finite, although still expanding. The number of particles is roughly around 10^80. Just because somewhere in the history of the universe its density was infinite doesn't mean that it has either infinite size or volume.

The limit operator is just an excuse for doing something you know you can't.
“It's the subject that nobody knows anything about that we can all talk about!” ― Richard Feynman
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

## #1027 2012-06-29 01:04:33

TESTU
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

Quote: "1 / 0 is not 1. It is undefined to divide by 0."

I Have an Apple in my Hand! I will not Divide it Because I Want to Eat it All!

So the Apple Remains Whole! = Apple / (Nothing!..Cos I don't want to!)

## #1028 2012-06-29 01:40:42

bobbym
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

I am afraid that is not what 1 / 0 means.

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.
If you can not overcome with talent...overcome with effort.

## #1029 2012-06-29 03:23:26

TESTU
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

Well 1/0 is Definitely not 0

## #1030 2012-06-29 06:56:55

anonimnystefy
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

1/0 is not anything. It is undefined. You cannot split an apple into no pieces.

The limit operator is just an excuse for doing something you know you can't.
“It's the subject that nobody knows anything about that we can all talk about!” ― Richard Feynman
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

## #1031 2012-06-29 07:37:13

bobbym
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

Hi TESTU;

As I said 1/0 is undefined. It has no meaning in mathematics.

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.
If you can not overcome with talent...overcome with effort.

## #1032 2012-06-29 22:19:39

Stangerzv
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

Well! If you draw a curve of y=1/x, you would see that y would be infinite as x approaches 0 but it would never touch y-axis indicating infinite value of y. Same with the so called 0.99999..recurring, if you draw a curve of y=0.9999..recurring..you would see, even if x approaches infinity y will never intersect line y=1. I bet to differ with many people regarding infinity. For example, in mathematics, to make sure it is true not enough to prove it up to billions or trillions terms but should be all term even up to infinity. This is why mathematicians developed method of induction. When you prove x=0.9999..recurring=1, you simply multiply it with 10 and then minus the original one. Before we talk it to the infinity why not we talk it on a finite scale. Lets say n=decimals points, when you have like n=1 trillion decimals and multiplying 0.999..recurring(up to 1 trillion decimals after 0) with 10, you will get 9.99..recurring( 1 trillion minus 1 point of decimals after first digit 9). Then, by subtracting the ten fold of x with original x, you will get 9x=8.999..(recurring 9 and ends with digit 1). Solving the equation, you will never get x=1. Now, consider infinite recurring 9, when you multiple x with 10, you take infinity as an integer yet you contradict the basic fundamental of math dealing with numbers. When you multiple a number with 10, you simply shifted a decimal point forwards and leaving the trailing digit as zero. For example, when you have x=0.9999  and multiply by 10, you will get 10x=9.9990 because a decimal point had being shifted forwards yet in proving 0.9999..recurring=1 you simply abuse the basic mathematics as if x=0.9999  and multiply by 10=10x=9.9999 (The last digit should be zero and not 9). The same thing happens in the infinite series, if you want to take it as a number not as a concept then you have to obey the fundamental of mathematics operations. If you obey this fundamental you will get 10x-x=9x=8.9999999..(recurring) ends with 1. Thus x/=1. When people talk about infinite series, they simply abuse it. To them infinity-1 is equal to infinity even though it is one less. Yet they simply multiply infinite series with integer and do basic mathematical operation without considering it could be false. This is how Euler linked his prime numbers with Riemann's Zeta Function or how Ramanujan got 1+1+1....=-1/12 or 1-1+1-1+1...=-1/12 because people don't believe in even or odd infinity yet they believe infinite series could be multiplied by integers to suit their ideas. If they could abuse it, then why not I say, Riemman's Zeta function C(2)=4 not (pi^2)/6. The value of 1/0 could be defined on certain circumstances because the creation of this universe after the big bang tells us a different thing,  at t=0, the volume of universe is zero with infinite density or density=mass/volume=>density=mass x 1/0 from this relationship we get the existence of this entire universe. Indicating that 1/0 is not undefined because it created something which we could see or perceive now as observable universe! Machines have simple lives, they only knows 1 and 0 and when they see 1/0, the simply say error:)

Last edited by Stangerzv (2012-06-29 22:21:01)

## #1033 2012-06-29 23:14:48

anonimnystefy
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

Hi Stangerzv

The curve never actually reaches infinity. It tends to it. The logic of the 1/x curve doesn't apply because y=0.999... is the same as y=1.

Your second argument is invalid. We never tried proving that 0.9999...9 (which has some finite number of digits). We proved it for 0.999... with infinite number of digit and in that prove we never multiplied infinity by an integer.

But if you think that 1=/=0.999... then could you tel me what is the value of 1-0.999... ?

Physics and mathematics are different things. But in physics, you cannot have that an object with no volume has a mass.

The limit operator is just an excuse for doing something you know you can't.
“It's the subject that nobody knows anything about that we can all talk about!” ― Richard Feynman
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

## #1034 2012-06-30 19:32:53

TESTU
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

1/0 is No Different to 1-0 or 1x0 or 1+0 Nothing is being Calculated into the Start Value of 1

If 1/0 Ect. is Not Possible!? Then the The Theory of Math is Flawed!

It is Very Strange that Something that Can be Seen to be Calculated is Not Accepted in Math!? ...

But Estimated Math with No 100% Guaranteed Answer is Accepted! ??

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote: "But if you think that 1=/=0.999... then could you tel me what is the value of 1-0.999... ? "

Reply... 1-0.999...  = (0.9... = 0.1...) Further on...(0.99... = 0.01...) Further on...(0.999...= 0.001...) Conclusion there will Always be a Difference!!

Last edited by TESTU (2012-06-30 20:22:28)

## #1035 2012-06-30 22:51:22

bobbym
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

Math is like a language. Everyone agrees on certain rules. 1 / 0 has a specific meaning. You can not
attach your own definition to it. That is like calling a deer a cow. You can do it but no one will
understand you.

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.
If you can not overcome with talent...overcome with effort.

## #1036 2012-07-01 07:33:14

TESTU
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

Nothing to do with What You Call Something!...It's Logic to Understand How Things/Math Works!

There are Double Standards in Math that Don't Cut the Mustard!!

## #1037 2012-07-01 07:33:47

bobbym
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

Like what for instance?

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.
If you can not overcome with talent...overcome with effort.

TESTU
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## #1039 2012-07-01 07:38:41

bobbym
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

You can not just define 1 / 0 anyway you like. Not if you expect to communicate
with other people.

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.
If you can not overcome with talent...overcome with effort.

## #1040 2012-07-01 07:40:12

TESTU
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

Math Exceptions Invent New Ideas!!

## #1041 2012-07-01 07:40:44

bobbym
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

Hi;

Math Exceptions Invent New Ideas!!

Oh, I get it. A Math Genius! Well, when he comes in have him sign up as a member. He can explain it to you better than I can.

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.
If you can not overcome with talent...overcome with effort.

## #1042 2012-07-01 18:54:26

TESTU
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

You are Just Learning!!

## #1043 2012-07-01 18:56:00

bobbym
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

Learning what?

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.
If you can not overcome with talent...overcome with effort.

TESTU
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## #1045 2012-07-01 19:07:39

bobbym
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

Learning what? Can you be specific?

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.
If you can not overcome with talent...overcome with effort.

TESTU
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??

## #1047 2012-07-01 19:17:59

bobbym
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

That is what I thought you would say.

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.
If you can not overcome with talent...overcome with effort.

## #1048 2012-07-02 15:23:38

TESTU
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

Quote: "But .99999999... still equals 1"

Reply Can you Give any Solid Evidence for your Quote above!?

## #1049 2012-07-02 18:50:47

bobbym
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

Yes, the geometric sum.

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.
If you can not overcome with talent...overcome with effort.

## #1050 2012-07-02 20:16:54

bob bundy
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### Re: 0.9999....(recurring) = 1?

posts #999 and 1001.

Describe any mathematical concept by listing its properties.  If you have something new, check out what would be be logical and consistent with what has gone before.

It is not compulsory to join the crowd.  You can choose which numbers to use.  Some people get through their whole life with just a few counting numbers.  The person who numbered the houses in my street clearly was superstitious because they left out number 13.  Once you know that it's quite easy to find the house you want so, clearly, in this context, you can get by without 13.

In my world 0.9999999 for ever is useful so I hang on to it.  And, as it behaves just like 1, I'm have no difficulty saying they're the same.  You can do that with any area of maths.  Pick the bits you want and leave out the rest.  There's a UK exam course that leaves out complex numbers.  For the questions they set , it works, although occasionally quadratics have no solutions.

One day someone will come up with a new bit of maths, that no one before knew existed, and we'll all say "Oh yes, the Universe makes much more sense now !"  Until that day we'll just have to settle for 42.

Bob

You cannot teach a man anything;  you can only help him find it within himself..........Galileo Galilei

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