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#1 2011-11-06 20:32:54

xfan7
Guest

Help on Calculation of Bets required...

Hi

It looks a Great Site going here and I found it by accident and looks Very useful too.

I hope someone can help me here.

I have managed to create a way of finding Winners (and that of course is Very Exciting ) on the Horses front and need to use these Winners in Mixed Win Doubles, Trebles, Four Folds & Five Folds.
These Mixed Win Doubles, Trebles, Four Folds & Five Folds are different kinds of bets.

I have 2 Objectives. * For each Objective it would be great to have a handy Calculator to work it out each time.

Objective 1 - is to work out How Many Bets I have in Total for Win Doubles, Trebles, Four Folds & Five Folds
Objective 2 - is to work out the Profit & Loss for these bets preferably in an Excel sheet

* I know it is all about Numbers & the Formulas behind this - but I'm afraid I get a little lost at this point dunno

Let's begin with Objective 1

First - let me give you what Doubles & Trebles & Four Folds & Five Folds mean:-
Double = 2 selections combined to form 1 bet from different races
Treble = 3 selections combined to form 1 bet from different races
Four Fold = 4 selections combined to form 1 bet from different races
Five Fold = 5 selections combined to form 1 bet from different races


Let us say we have 5 Races
Each race contains 3 horses

e.g.
Race 1 , Race 2, race 3, race 4 & race 5
Each race has 3 selections

e.g.
Race 1 = A, B, & C selections
Race 2 = D, E & F selections
Race 3 = G, H & I selections
Race 4 = J, K & L selections
Race 5 = M, N & O selections

Now the aim is to find out HOW Many Doubles, Trebles, Four Folds & Five Folds can I get from these 15 selections
and 5 races in Total...?

Of course - this is 5 races. Some days we may only have 4 races or even 3 races only.
So - depending on How many races we have, we have to work it the number of bets out again.

Here is an example of a Win Double from 2 races - aim is to trap just ONE Winning Double form these 2 races.

Race 1 = A, B & C selections
Race 2 = D, E & F selections

I can ONLY have ONE Winning Double from these 2 races.

However - the number of Bets I have are 9 in these 3 races

Here are the selections as would be in bets = AD, AE, AF, BD, BE, BF, CD, CE & CF
So - in this example I can get 9 possible bets BUT ONLY 1 Winning Double because ONLY 1 horse can win from 1 race & when you combine 2 winning horses from 2 races it forms 1 winning double.

The reason why you are combining this way is because you are covering ALL selections for any eventuality.
It doesn't matter if A wins, or B or C wins in the 1st race & it doesn't matter if D, E or F wins in the 2nd race - IF 1 wins from any of these selections in each race, you have a Winning Double.

* Have to say at this point - you cannot get a Treble from 2 races because a Treble consists of 3 horses which means you have to have a Minimum of 3 races

* Same with 4 Folds - you have to have a Minimum of 4 races & with 5 Folds = 5 Races minimum.

But now - this gets more complicated as we start to include 3 races or 4 races or 5 races, and then if you add in How many Trebles & 4 Folds & 5 Folds then yes the Number of Bets will shoot up dramatically, hence a handy auto calculator will be very handy or something in an Excel sheet that works it out quickly.

In trying to work out the Number of Trebles - it is the same as above except you have to have a Minimum of 3 races - could be more than 3 races but NEVER less than 3 races.

I know it appears complicated reading it - but it can be unravelled.

Can you please help me put on how to work out the number of bets with different scenarios..?

If you need any more information - or any explaining - I will provide it and no problems.

Obviously there are formulas to work these things out but be good to have them in an Excel sheet.

Anyway - please ask if there is anything that you don't understand or want to know more...

Thank You

xfan cool

#2 2011-11-06 20:53:49

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 87,238

Re: Help on Calculation of Bets required...

Hi xfan7;

Are you asking for the number of pairings for 3 or more races?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

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#3 2011-11-06 21:31:11

xfan7
Guest

Re: Help on Calculation of Bets required...

Yes that is also required Thanks.

Basically - how many different pairings can be got from 3 races, or 4 races or 5 races using 3 selections in each race.

Pairing - I take it you mean Doubles..?

Obviously Trebles will be different and so will be the 4 & 5 folds.

#4 2011-11-06 23:12:52

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 87,238

Re: Help on Calculation of Bets required...

There are 27 ways to pick a treble in 3 races.

Supposing there are 4 races. Do you always want to pick a four fold?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

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#5 2011-11-06 23:55:11

Xfan7
Guest

Re: Help on Calculation of Bets required...

hi

If there are 4 races - I can or could pick a 4 fold and worth picking a 4 fold as the outlay is very small compared to having several doubles & trebles outlay- and the best thing about a 4 fold is IF all 4 win, the payout can be huge...

e.g. 2/1 5/1 4/1 & 7/1

2/1 becomes 3.0, 5/1 is 6.0 4/1 is 5.0 & 7/1 is 8.0

3 x 6 x 5 x 8 = 720pts returned for a 1pt outlay

and IF 1pt equates to say £2, then 720pts = +£1,440 return

so - yes worth doing a 4 Fold always you never know when you get all 4 win although harder to nail
4 winners, but it is possible and I have had 4 winners in the past, although not many times.

At the end of the day the choice is there - I can pick a 4 fold or leave it out but the main thing is I should know how many bets in total and which bets

#6 2011-11-07 00:00:41

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 87,238

Re: Help on Calculation of Bets required...

One thing at a time.

There are 64 ways to pick a four fold from 4 races.

Does your same reasoning hold for 5 races and picking a 5 fold?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

Offline

#7 2011-11-07 00:53:26

xfan7
Guest

Re: Help on Calculation of Bets required...

Yes -same sort of reasoning for 5 timer accumulator - only we need a minimum of 5 races

#8 2011-11-07 01:01:42

xfan7
Guest

Re: Help on Calculation of Bets required...

By the way - the number of ways to pick 4 folds in 4 races is not 64

It is 81 IF you have 3 selections in each race.

Not sure how you got 64..?

#9 2011-11-07 06:55:12

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 87,238

Re: Help on Calculation of Bets required...

Hi;

I put 4^3 instead of 3^4. Yes, 81 is correct!

Okay, so we have 243 for 5 races. This you already know so where do we go from here.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

Offline

#10 2011-11-07 23:13:11

xfan7
Guest

Re: Help on Calculation of Bets required...

hey Bobby

Ok -as I was asking you guys - I had already requested help about 3 days ago from another source...

I have only just received the reply just now - and it looks like my questions have been answered .

Looks like - I need to double check everything is there.
It appears that I can now calculate ALL possibilities of all possible multiples bets that need working
out when you have 2,3,4,5 or 6 races with any number of selections contained per race...

and it is Absolutely Staggering what can be done...! wow

e.g. yesterday - I Rated my own races - from the first 6 races - I got the winner in every race
for those 6 race from my Top 2 Rated.

The Prices were = 9/4, 6/1, 9/4, 9/4, 5/1 & 4/7

I worked out just now that the total bets came to 716 IF using all 6 races with 2 selections in each race

And the Amazing thing is - the Total Returns for this 716pts outlay was = +11,028-93..........! wowdizzy

Take away the original staking of 716 and you are left with a Net Profit of +10,312-93.

Not bad for an afternoon's work, is it..?

Imagine putting £1 Unit Stake on these..?
Total Outlay = £716-00
Total Return = £11,028-93
Total Clear Net Profit = +£10,312-93..................! Absolutely Mind Boggling this figure..!

Well - I shall continue to investigate this area thoroughly as I know I can trap winners regularly and consistently
in my Top 3 Rated as have been doing this for 6 years now only I didn't know the maths behind this and this is why i came to your Great Site and it is a very Good site too - I like it a lot.

So - as you can see - this was the reason why I was very keen to get some answers...

I would like to THANK YOU & anyone else who has helped me here or tried to help - I can tell you - it is Very Much Appreciated that good guys like you are ready to help others.

If there is anything I can do for you guys - just let me know....

best wishes

xfan7 cool

#11 2011-11-08 03:26:16

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 87,238

Re: Help on Calculation of Bets required...

Hi xfan7;

Good luck then with your idea!


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

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#12 2011-11-08 21:28:24

xfan7
Guest

Re: Help on Calculation of Bets required...

Thanks

xfan7 cool

#13 2013-12-21 13:12:51

Franky
Guest

Re: Help on Calculation of Bets required...

How many 5 folds can u get from 6 winners

#14 2013-12-21 20:12:51

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 87,238

Re: Help on Calculation of Bets required...

Hi Franky;

I am not understanding what you want, please explain.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

Offline

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