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**xfan7****Guest**

Hi

It looks a Great Site going here and I found it by accident and looks Very useful too.

I hope someone can help me here.

I have managed to create a way of finding Winners (and that of course is Very Exciting ) on the Horses front and need to use these Winners in Mixed Win Doubles, Trebles, Four Folds & Five Folds.

These Mixed Win Doubles, Trebles, Four Folds & Five Folds are different kinds of bets.

I have 2 Objectives. * For each Objective it would be great to have a handy Calculator to work it out each time.

Objective 1 - is to work out How Many Bets I have in Total for Win Doubles, Trebles, Four Folds & Five Folds

Objective 2 - is to work out the Profit & Loss for these bets preferably in an Excel sheet

* I know it is all about Numbers & the Formulas behind this - but I'm afraid I get a little lost at this point

**Let's begin with Objective 1**

First - let me give you what Doubles & Trebles & Four Folds & Five Folds mean:-

Double = 2 selections combined to form 1 bet from different races

Treble = 3 selections combined to form 1 bet from different races

Four Fold = 4 selections combined to form 1 bet from different races

Five Fold = 5 selections combined to form 1 bet from different races

Let us say we have 5 Races

Each race contains 3 horses

e.g.

Race 1 , Race 2, race 3, race 4 & race 5

Each race has 3 selections

e.g.

Race 1 = A, B, & C selections

Race 2 = D, E & F selections

Race 3 = G, H & I selections

Race 4 = J, K & L selections

Race 5 = M, N & O selections

Now the aim is to find out HOW Many Doubles, Trebles, Four Folds & Five Folds can I get from these 15 selections

and 5 races in Total...?

Of course - this is 5 races. Some days we may only have 4 races or even 3 races only.

So - depending on How many races we have, we have to work it the number of bets out again.

Here is an example of a Win Double from 2 races - aim is to trap just ONE Winning Double form these 2 races.

Race 1 = A, B & C selections

Race 2 = D, E & F selections

I can ONLY have ONE Winning Double from these 2 races.

However - the number of Bets I have are 9 in these 3 races

Here are the selections as would be in bets = AD, AE, AF, BD, BE, BF, CD, CE & CF

So - in this example I can get 9 possible bets BUT ONLY 1 Winning Double because ONLY 1 horse can win from 1 race & when you combine 2 winning horses from 2 races it forms 1 winning double.

The reason why you are combining this way is because you are covering ALL selections for any eventuality.

It doesn't matter if A wins, or B or C wins in the 1st race & it doesn't matter if D, E or F wins in the 2nd race - IF 1 wins from any of these selections in each race, you have a Winning Double.

* Have to say at this point - you cannot get a Treble from 2 races because a Treble consists of 3 horses which means you have to have a Minimum of 3 races

* Same with 4 Folds - you have to have a Minimum of 4 races & with 5 Folds = 5 Races minimum.

But now - this gets more complicated as we start to include 3 races or 4 races or 5 races, and then if you add in How many Trebles & 4 Folds & 5 Folds then yes the Number of Bets will shoot up dramatically, hence a handy auto calculator will be very handy or something in an Excel sheet that works it out quickly.

In trying to work out the Number of Trebles - it is the same as above except you have to have a Minimum of 3 races - could be more than 3 races but NEVER less than 3 races.

I know it appears complicated reading it - but it can be unravelled.

Can you please help me put on how to work out the number of bets with different scenarios..?

If you need any more information - or any explaining - I will provide it and no problems.

Obviously there are formulas to work these things out but be good to have them in an Excel sheet.

Anyway - please ask if there is anything that you don't understand or want to know more...

Thank You

xfan

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 86,481

Hi xfan7;

Are you asking for the number of pairings for 3 or more races?

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.**

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**xfan7****Guest**

Yes that is also required Thanks.

Basically - how many different pairings can be got from 3 races, or 4 races or 5 races using 3 selections in each race.

Pairing - I take it you mean Doubles..?

Obviously Trebles will be different and so will be the 4 & 5 folds.

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 86,481

There are 27 ways to pick a treble in 3 races.

Supposing there are 4 races. Do you always want to pick a four fold?

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.**

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**Xfan7****Guest**

hi

If there are 4 races - I can or could pick a 4 fold and worth picking a 4 fold as the outlay is very small compared to having several doubles & trebles outlay- and the best thing about a 4 fold is IF all 4 win, the payout can be huge...

e.g. 2/1 5/1 4/1 & 7/1

2/1 becomes 3.0, 5/1 is 6.0 4/1 is 5.0 & 7/1 is 8.0

3 x 6 x 5 x 8 = 720pts returned for a 1pt outlay

and IF 1pt equates to say £2, then 720pts = +£1,440 return

so - yes worth doing a 4 Fold always you never know when you get all 4 win although harder to nail

4 winners, but it is possible and I have had 4 winners in the past, although not many times.

At the end of the day the choice is there - I can pick a 4 fold or leave it out but the main thing is I should know how many bets in total and which bets

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 86,481

One thing at a time.

There are 64 ways to pick a four fold from 4 races.

Does your same reasoning hold for 5 races and picking a 5 fold?

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.**

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**xfan7****Guest**

Yes -same sort of reasoning for 5 timer accumulator - only we need a minimum of 5 races

**xfan7****Guest**

By the way - the number of ways to pick 4 folds in 4 races is not 64

It is 81 IF you have 3 selections in each race.

Not sure how you got 64..?

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 86,481

Hi;

I put 4^3 instead of 3^4. Yes, 81 is correct!

Okay, so we have 243 for 5 races. This you already know so where do we go from here.

Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?

Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

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**xfan7****Guest**

hey Bobby

Ok -as I was asking you guys - I had already requested help about 3 days ago from another source...

I have only just received the reply just now - and it looks like my questions have been answered .

Looks like - I need to double check everything is there.

It appears that I can now calculate ALL possibilities of all possible multiples bets that need working

out when you have 2,3,4,5 or 6 races with any number of selections contained per race...

and it is Absolutely Staggering what can be done...! wow

e.g. yesterday - I Rated my own races - from the first 6 races - I got the winner in every race

for those 6 race from my Top 2 Rated.

The Prices were = 9/4, 6/1, 9/4, 9/4, 5/1 & 4/7

I worked out just now that the total bets came to 716 IF using all 6 races with 2 selections in each race

**And the Amazing thing is - the Total Returns for this 716pts outlay was = +11,028-93..........! wow**

**Take away the original staking of 716 and you are left with a Net Profit of +10,312-93.**

Not bad for an afternoon's work, is it..?

**Imagine putting £1 Unit Stake on these..?Total Outlay = £716-00Total Return = £11,028-93Total Clear Net Profit = +£10,312-93..................! Absolutely Mind Boggling this figure..! **

Well - I shall continue to investigate this area thoroughly as I know I can trap winners regularly and consistently

in my Top 3 Rated as have been doing this for 6 years now only I didn't know the maths behind this and this is why i came to your Great Site and it is a very Good site too - I like it a lot.

So - as you can see - this was the reason why I was very keen to get some answers...

I would like to THANK YOU & anyone else who has helped me here or tried to help - I can tell you - it is Very Much Appreciated that good guys like you are ready to help others.

If there is anything I can do for you guys - just let me know....

best wishes

xfan7

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 86,481

Hi xfan7;

Good luck then with your idea!

Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?

Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

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**xfan7****Guest**

Thanks

xfan7

**Franky****Guest**

How many 5 folds can u get from 6 winners

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 86,481

Hi Franky;

I am not understanding what you want, please explain.

Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?

Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

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