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#1 2006-09-03 18:14:50

MathsIsFun
Administrator
Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,535

Magical Motor?

Controversy! A motor that defies the law of conservation of energy ... or does it?

Anyway, it will be fun to watch what happens: http://www.steorn.net/frontpage/Default.aspx


"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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#2 2006-09-04 00:35:33

numen
Member
Registered: 2006-05-03
Posts: 115

Re: Magical Motor?

...right. The day magical motors are being produced I'm gonna eat the whole of Scandinavia. Promise smile

Edit: Found picture
sean5_small.jpg

Last edited by numen (2006-09-04 01:13:19)


Bang postponed. Not big enough. Reboot.

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#3 2006-09-04 01:29:52

mathsyperson
Moderator
Registered: 2005-06-22
Posts: 4,900

Re: Magical Motor?

I'm skeptical as well. While magical motors would be wonderful and solve most of the problems on this world (running out of fossil fuels, global warming, etc.) instantly, it's highly unlikely that the fundamental laws of the Universe will completely rewrite themselves for our convenience.

There's probably some little detail that everyone's overlooked, but that makes the whole thing not work.


Why did the vector cross the road?
It wanted to be normal.

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#4 2006-09-04 03:40:50

Ricky
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Registered: 2005-12-04
Posts: 3,791

Re: Magical Motor?

And what peer-reivewed journal was this great machine published in?  Well, ok, it wasn't really published anywhere.  But an ad for it did appear in Economist magazine.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, science happens with scientists.


"In the real world, this would be a problem.  But in mathematics, we can just define a place where this problem doesn't exist.  So we'll go ahead and do that now..."

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#5 2006-09-06 13:50:33

ryos
Member
Registered: 2005-08-04
Posts: 394

Re: Magical Motor?

Ricky wrote:

I've said it once and I'll say it again, science happens with scientists.

Unless, of course, the scientists are too beholden to this "law" of conservation of energy to see the fundamental truth. Everyone knows that laws are really more like "guidlines" than actual rules.

Kidding! I'm with you. Their info page has this to say about independent verification:

During 2005 Steorn embarked on a process of independent validation and approached a wide selection of academic institutions. The vast majority of these institutions refused to even look at the technology, however several did. Those who were prepared to complete testing have all confirmed our claims; however none will publicly go on record.

None will publicly go on record? Why could that be? The only reason not to is that you are concerned about your reputation. Wait...either the technology works, or it doesn't. If it works, there is no danger (and actually a lot of prestige) in going on record to support it. If it doesn't work, then you should go on record to decry it. Which option did anyone choose?

This leads to the conclusion that the whole thing is a big, elaborate hoax. However, I'm having a hard time following the money here. What does Steorn stand to gain from the deception? They apparently have a history of doing business in an entirely different market (counterfeit prevention technologies). Why would they want to destroy their credibility with a lie?


El que pega primero pega dos veces.

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#6 2006-09-06 16:50:38

Ricky
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Registered: 2005-12-04
Posts: 3,791

Re: Magical Motor?

Investors ryos, investors.


"In the real world, this would be a problem.  But in mathematics, we can just define a place where this problem doesn't exist.  So we'll go ahead and do that now..."

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#7 2006-09-06 19:20:49

MathsIsFun
Administrator
Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,535

Re: Magical Motor?

It would be fun to see how the world would change if energy suddenly became cheap and portable. I remember reading once that the standard of living is related to energy availability. But a sudden change like that would have all sorts of consequences. Maybe one day we will have cheap electricity from nuclear fission, and small batteries that can store megawatt-hours. Wow.


"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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#8 2006-09-07 01:52:15

Ricky
Moderator
Registered: 2005-12-04
Posts: 3,791

Re: Magical Motor?

If we can find a way to tranfser energy through the air, then screw batteries.  We don't need 'em.


"In the real world, this would be a problem.  But in mathematics, we can just define a place where this problem doesn't exist.  So we'll go ahead and do that now..."

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#9 2006-09-07 07:56:17

ryos
Member
Registered: 2005-08-04
Posts: 394

Re: Magical Motor?

Here's a good look at the Steorn bit from a blogger I trust (the Engineer-Poet):


El que pega primero pega dos veces.

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#10 2006-09-07 09:35:07

MathsIsFun
Administrator
Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,535

Re: Magical Motor?

And here was I thinking we might see it all revealed after their deadline - but it looks like they will just select 12 scientists who are on their side, and keep the bandwagon rolling.


"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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#11 2006-09-08 03:10:16

krassi_holmz
Real Member
Registered: 2005-12-02
Posts: 1,908

Re: Magical Motor?

I don't beleive. But there's a new side of the quantium mechanics-that you can squeeze energy from the quantium vacuum. It doesn't seems this mechnic to do so.


IPBLE:  Increasing Performance By Lowering Expectations.

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#12 2006-09-08 03:13:31

Ricky
Moderator
Registered: 2005-12-04
Posts: 3,791

Re: Magical Motor?

The thing about energy in a vaccum is that there is some for a very short time, but then it balances itself out.

Most phycists think that it is just as impossible to prevent this balance as it is to create energy.


"In the real world, this would be a problem.  But in mathematics, we can just define a place where this problem doesn't exist.  So we'll go ahead and do that now..."

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#13 2006-09-08 03:21:35

krassi_holmz
Real Member
Registered: 2005-12-02
Posts: 1,908

Re: Magical Motor?

Yes-you will need energy for preventing the balance.
Another process, which is rich of energy (but finite) is the anihilation (i'm not sure if it's that in English) - when the matter goes to the anti-matter we have a big bang with lots of energy.
Another thing for the energy is that it is connected to the weight by E=mc^2, so you have to loose matter if you want an overdose of energy.


IPBLE:  Increasing Performance By Lowering Expectations.

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#14 2006-09-08 04:13:30

numen
Member
Registered: 2006-05-03
Posts: 115

Re: Magical Motor?

Antimatter can't be used as an energy source this way, it's not efficient enough. It costs more energy to produce than we get out from the actual annihilation. It's pointless. Since there's not so much antimatter around, you'd have to create it.


Bang postponed. Not big enough. Reboot.

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#15 2006-09-08 07:41:55

krassi_holmz
Real Member
Registered: 2005-12-02
Posts: 1,908

Re: Magical Motor?

numen wrote:

Antimatter can't be used as an energy source this way, it's not efficient enough. It costs more energy to produce than we get out from the actual annihilation. It's pointless. Since there's not so much antimatter around, you'd have to create it.

I'm talking if he find some natural antimatter "well"- I have read somewhere that it's not impossible in the universe to exist big bubbles of antimatter, but to exist, they must be far from any matter.
The ultimate source of energy, by me, will be an antimatter black hole!!! smile
we will be lucky if we find such thing. smile


IPBLE:  Increasing Performance By Lowering Expectations.

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#16 2006-09-12 05:31:27

ryos
Member
Registered: 2005-08-04
Posts: 394

Re: Magical Motor?

Antimatter production has at least one very worthwhile use: as rocket fuel. Not even just to power the warp drive on the Enterprise, but because it is the most energy-dense power source in the universe. We are currently limited in our space exploration by the energy density of our rocket fuel; if we had a reasonably priced way to produce antimatter, we could send a probe to neighboring star systems...


El que pega primero pega dos veces.

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#17 2006-10-07 08:12:12

akademika
Member
Registered: 2006-08-09
Posts: 9

Re: Magical Motor?

Perpettum Mobile is b*lls*t (excuse me). There are some theories that explain how to gain matter from the vacuum, but I can't understand nothing at tis point. In my opinion the future major energy source is the hydrogenium fusion by reactors like TOKAMAK http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokamak . But current TOKAMAKs can't produce enought energy to self sustain reaction but one day this will be reality !!!

Last edited by akademika (2006-10-07 09:36:54)

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#18 2006-10-07 10:44:12

MathsIsFun
Administrator
Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 7,535

Re: Magical Motor?

I believe we will one day master fusion. Our technology is still "young".

And it is a long road. Work is starting on "ITER" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER), and it won't be operational until 2016, and it is only an experimental model!


"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..."  - Leon M. Lederman

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