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#1 2016-11-03 06:25:07

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

Hi;

I knew it all along. Can you imagine that if we shuffled up all possible axiomatic systems and picked one at random we would probably have a better formal system than logic?!  That math itself, is nothing more than the hidden rule of saying to oneself, hey, let us find something trivial, that we think is pretty and see if we can find some theorems about it. Does this mean it is kaboobly doo? The queen of science and the epitome of human thought is kaboobly doo?

Who would say such a thing? Myself? I just learned last month that for 92 years I have been tying my shoes the wrong way! Obviously, bumpkins are not bright enough to hold such an opinion. Doron maybe? Nope, it would have to be a super genius. More importantly, it would have to be someone who could say such a thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlMMeqO7wOI


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#2 2017-03-26 04:43:36

Agnishom
Real Member
From: Riemann Sphere
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 24,838
Website

Re: Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

What does he mean by logic? And I think by standard mathematics, I think he is referring to the one developed on top of ZFC


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

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#3 2017-03-26 04:49:45

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

Hi;

Did you watch the video? I think the point is whatever them there fellows are doing, he does not like it. Pay close attention to the comments around 5:45. Remember L's comments about human mathematics? Looks like, ole Wolfy has been to Nevada and not just Vegas either.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#4 2017-03-26 16:15:14

Agnishom
Real Member
From: Riemann Sphere
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 24,838
Website

Re: Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

I didn't watch the video, but I heard all of it.

I don't think it is a good idea to digest a 10 minute video in just 1 line, there is much more to his point. I feel that Wolfram has dumbed down this talk a little too much. I'd like to see a version where he really explains everything critically from an expert's point of view.


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

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#5 2017-03-26 17:26:19

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

I'd like to see a version where he really explains everything critically from an expert's point of view.

Hmmm, so we should ignore what he does say in favor of what he does not?

I didn't watch the video, but I heard all of it.

Then it would seem your ears are smarter than your eyes.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#6 2017-03-27 05:54:42

Agnishom
Real Member
From: Riemann Sphere
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 24,838
Website

Re: Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

I am not ignoring what he said. In fact, I paid attention to it, which is why I am looking for the rest of it, so that I understand his complete thought


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

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#7 2017-03-27 07:03:24

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

It is unlikely that humans have discovered the best system. If you are a formalist, then it is very unlikely indeed!


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#8 2017-03-27 14:08:30

Agnishom
Real Member
From: Riemann Sphere
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 24,838
Website

Re: Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

Did you get my point in post 6?


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

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#9 2017-03-27 14:11:07

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

What if that is all of it?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#10 2017-03-27 14:35:36

Agnishom
Real Member
From: Riemann Sphere
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 24,838
Website

Re: Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

I would be very disappointed at Wolfram, then. A man of his knowledge should know better than that.

Leaving that aside, do you not feel that the talk is dumbed down for laymen?

Last edited by Agnishom (2017-03-27 14:36:22)


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

Offline

#11 2017-03-27 14:39:35

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

I think he just wanted to make a Doronian type point.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

Offline

#12 2017-03-27 15:10:20

Agnishom
Real Member
From: Riemann Sphere
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 24,838
Website

Re: Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

I get it, but he is not really backing up his argument with much. How did he arrive at the qualification of 50000? That cannot be just from out of the blue.

Once again, I'd like to see his complete thoughts on this, not just the point.


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

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#13 2017-03-27 15:19:29

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

That is very good, you noticed that. I would say that he was being optimistic with 50000. I would say it is much closer to 100000000000000000000000.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

Offline

#14 2017-03-27 15:33:19

Agnishom
Real Member
From: Riemann Sphere
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 24,838
Website

Re: Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

I do not think you get my point.


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

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#15 2017-03-27 15:36:06

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

I do, I was attempting to point out that the number is meaningless. The question is: does anyone other than mathematicians and physicists think that the thing we call math today is as good as they think it is.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

Offline

#16 2017-03-27 15:42:08

Agnishom
Real Member
From: Riemann Sphere
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 24,838
Website

Re: Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

You are missing out the Computer Scientists!

My point is that Wolfram's talk in many places just skips over the details. I'd like the full details of the talk


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

Offline

#17 2017-03-27 15:46:05

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

But are you not overlooking what was said in favor of what was not? He said that logic was junk.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

Offline

#18 2017-03-27 15:52:00

Agnishom
Real Member
From: Riemann Sphere
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 24,838
Website

Re: Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

How am I overlooking that, again?


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

Offline

#19 2017-03-27 15:54:18

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

Is it not true that what he said was enough? We could replace 50000 with the statement that according to him we are using a very, very poor system. He is a proponent of computational math.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

Offline

#20 2017-03-27 15:56:59

Agnishom
Real Member
From: Riemann Sphere
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 24,838
Website

Re: Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

I am sorry, what he said is not enough.


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

Offline

#21 2017-03-27 16:02:05

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Logic is the 50 thousandth best way?

I would have liked to hear more, maybe a search would find something.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

Offline

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