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**mikau****Member**- Registered: 2005-08-22
- Posts: 1,504

A few months back my mother was angry that my room was a mess, and when I didn't clean it, she hid my calculus book! :-O No lie! I was FURIOUS! But I guess it worked...

Whats the worst punishment you ever got from your parents?

A logarithm is just a misspelled algorithm.

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**Ricky****Moderator**- Registered: 2005-12-04
- Posts: 3,791

Talk about pun-ishments. Your mother integerated your calculus book into her list of way to punish you. That is exponentially greater than anything my mother ever did. I'm glad she never adopted any kind of derviative of what you got.

So if you don't clean your room, will the punishments be continuous?

"In the real world, this would be a problem. But in mathematics, we can just define a place where this problem doesn't exist. So we'll go ahead and do that now..."

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**mikau****Member**- Registered: 2005-08-22
- Posts: 1,504

More or less. There appears to be no limit to what she will do to make me clean my room. ;-)

A logarithm is just a misspelled algorithm.

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**Patrick****Real Member**- Registered: 2006-02-24
- Posts: 1,005

As the mess reaches infinity, your access to the book approaches 0? :]

The worst punishment.. Hmm, actually the 'worst' punishment I've ever gotten was to go to my room for a couple of hours.. I've always been a good boy :] (either that(which is not the case) or my parents just don't believe in punishment)

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**MathsIsFun****Administrator**- Registered: 2005-01-21
- Posts: 7,552

Ricky, that was just TOO much. If you will allow me to move beyond calculus ...

Pun-ishment is factored into our lives. Maybe we could keep a log? Because for some people it may be constant, for others variable. Personally I only got a fraction of it, wich has positives and negatives.

(and the worst)

The exponents of pun-ishment see it as an index of their power.

"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..." - Leon M. Lederman

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**mikau****Member**- Registered: 2005-08-22
- Posts: 1,504

Might I add, mathsisfun, the difference between those who were disciplined by punishments and those who weren't is absolute. Cleary disciplining your kids has value and the product of punishment can only be positive. Good behavior in a child is a sign that he has been well disciplined.

Now to move away from that...

I was also a good kid, Patrick, (if it is possible to say that of your self) I was not a trouble maker. The worst punishments I got were for just being an airheaded. The first I must have been like 5, this kid next door put a lighter in my hand and told me to set a cardboard box on fire in a back alley. And I was like "Duh... okay!" so I did it. We stood there watching the box disintegrate (uh oh here we go again) lo and behold my dad shows up. My friend dissapeared and I was dragged in the house and locked in my room for the rest of the day. It wasn't so bad really, all my toys were there and if I wanted a drink or something, my mom had to bring it since I wasn't allowed out of the room. (room service!)

The other time, lot long after, me and my sister were sitting on a litle tool shed next door. We got in deep trouble for that because it was a rickety old thing thats probably older then my parents, and it could have collapsed. I was told to write all 50 states 10 times. At the time, I had just learned to read and write and was VERY slow at it. I didn't even get 50 done, I just cried the whole day. In the end it got late. My dad gave me a much shorter assignment for writing practice (guess he didn't know my writing was that slow) I finished that in a half hour and went to bed.

A logarithm is just a misspelled algorithm.

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**mikau****Member**- Registered: 2005-08-22
- Posts: 1,504

Not to be Nitt Ricky.. I mean... nitt picky, Ricky, but exponential increase means it is changing at a rate proportionate to its size at a given time. I think the mathematically correct term would be... more.

Actually, thats almost a direct quote from a Numb3rs episode.

*Last edited by mikau (2006-07-13 13:56:29)*

A logarithm is just a misspelled algorithm.

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**John E. Franklin****Member**- Registered: 2005-08-29
- Posts: 3,566

exponential curve: So at 10, the slope is 10n, and at 20 the slope is 20n, and at 100, the slope is 100n.

parabola: At 10, slope is 10n, at 20 the slope is 20n, at 100, the slope is 100n.

But there must be some mistake with the exponential one?

Maybe you are talking about the second derivative???

Wait, I think it has to do with adding and subtracting versus dividing rise by run.

Because squares add 1,3,5,7,9,11,13 as indicated by Ricky's summation in another thread.

And for a diagonal line (y=x) you add 1,1,1,1,1 and slope is always one and 2nd derivative is zero.

Isn't the slope of e^x just e^x ?? Been awhile.

**igloo** **myrtilles** **fourmis**

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**All_Is_Number****Member**- Registered: 2006-07-10
- Posts: 258

John E. Franklin wrote:

Isn't the slope of e^x just e^x ?? Been awhile.

Yes

*You can shear a sheep many times but skin him only once.*

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**mikau****Member**- Registered: 2005-08-22
- Posts: 1,504

the fact that the slope of e^x at x = e^x has a lot to do with that.

Lets say the slope of a function at f(t) = k f(t), (where k is some constant) we can guess from this that f(t) = a e^(kt) differentiate this to find its slope and you get ka e^(kt) but a e^(kt) = f(t) we replace this and we find the slope of f(t) at t = k f(t). Thats why the exponential equation is a e^(kt) when an object inscreased exponentially, it is increasing at a rate proportionate to its size at a given time.

Kind of a quick crude explanation but that makes it less confusing.

A logarithm is just a misspelled algorithm.

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**Ninja 101****Member**- Registered: 2006-02-20
- Posts: 936

a wallop?

Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being saught. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.

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**RealEstateBroker****Member**- Registered: 2006-06-01
- Posts: 45

I am guessing that most of the people on this forum are young, hence the question is about the worst punishment your parents ever used. I am 61 years old, so I am thinking more about the most stoopid punishments (we progressive typ parents call them "consequences") that I ever tried.

Not believing in hitting a child makes it challenging, so you have to try to think of other ways to coerce them...um, I mean - to convince them to cooperate.

When my son was very little, we had a ritual of reading bedtime stories, which really meant a lot to him, and which we both enjoyed. For awhile, my wife and I discovered that threatening to withhold the bedtime story was a powerful threat, which usually got results. However, for a threat to be credible, inevitably there comes a time when you actually have to carry it out. The times when I actually withheld the bedtime story, my son was devastated emotionally. It was terrible to hear him cry, and it was an emotional loss for both of us to destroy this special time when we normally connected. The bedtime ritual is an important way that a parent gives love and assurance to the child, and helps the child to feel safe at night. It was a bad mistake to have used this as a punishment.

Fortunately, my wife realized that it was a mistake. She said that the bedtime story should be held sacred, and never again used as a punishment...um, er, I mean "consequence."

Now that my son is 15 and asserting his autonomy, it has been years since he would have wanted me to read him a bedtime story. The last time I read him a story was when he was 13, I had just gotten out of the hospital with a life-threatening illness, I was weak and just getting back on my feet, and I said I wanted to read him a story (I must have seemed pretty pathetic). To humor the old man, he actually sat in the living room with me, and -- somewhat impatiently -- allowed me to read him a story.

Before I had kids, I was very critical of parents, particularly my own, and I did not have a clue as to the dilemnas and challenges a parent faces. I am not trying to justify taking away the calculus book: It es clearly a stoopid punishment to interfere with something positive that your child is passionate about. What I am saying is that we cannot necessarily assume that each of us would never make terrible mistake when we have the responsibility of being a parent. Sometimes a child will test you be doing something anti-social or otherwise unacceptible, just to put you on the spot as to how you will cope with it. When (and if) you become a parent, will you succeed in figuring out how to handle "impossible" situations?

I am really glad that Mikau shared this experience, and opened up an important discussion.

Love is what matters most!

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**MathsIsFun****Administrator**- Registered: 2005-01-21
- Posts: 7,552

Wow, that is a very powerful story.

I knew some parents who were always smacking their boy. Not hard, but a *lot*. He got their measure though. He challenged them "go on, smack me harder!" They had no idea what to do!

But often the most powerful punishments are not physical. One powerful technique I have seen is "The Talk": "Now, listen to me, that wasn't a nice thing to do, was it? Let me explain why ... etc ... etc ... etc ..."

"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..." - Leon M. Lederman

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**mikau****Member**- Registered: 2005-08-22
- Posts: 1,504

YES! Bore them to death!

Very good story, RealEstateBroker. You must have had a reallly good relationship with your kid for him to get so upset when you wouldn't read him a bedtime story.

And now I am going to scream and cry if you don't read us one.

A logarithm is just a misspelled algorithm.

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**John E. Franklin****Member**- Registered: 2005-08-29
- Posts: 3,566

Yes, but it's proportional to e^x, not x. A parabola is changes proportional to 2x, its derivative.

Am I messed up with that one??

**igloo** **myrtilles** **fourmis**

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**Zach****Member**- Registered: 2005-03-23
- Posts: 2,075

Punishments? Ha! I don't get punished.

I'm just that good at hiding what evil things I do.

Boy let me tell you what:

I bet you didn't know it, but I'm a fiddle player too.

And if you'd care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you.

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**mikau****Member**- Registered: 2005-08-22
- Posts: 1,504

Zach.... I fear you.

Yes, Frankie, you are correct. Changing at a rate proportionate to its size at a given time. at x, the size of e^x will be e^x and it will be changing at a rate proportionate to its size at that point, or a * e^x. In this case, a = 1.

A logarithm is just a misspelled algorithm.

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**John E. Franklin****Member**- Registered: 2005-08-29
- Posts: 3,566

Oh I see what your saying, proportional to y !! I was doing proportional to x !!

**igloo** **myrtilles** **fourmis**

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