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#1 2015-02-13 15:29:19

Christy24
Guest

Meet this Challenge

Can you please give me a hint on how to solve the `Meet this Challenge`  riddle.  I already have it on a chart, with all the eight names, but I am stuck. What do I do now?
Thanks sooo much.
Kind regards,
Christy

#2 2015-02-13 15:43:14

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Meet this Challenge

Hi;

What is the riddle?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#3 2015-02-13 17:52:16

David
Member
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2014-04-23
Posts: 3,145

Re: Meet this Challenge


Meaningless, meaningless, Everything is meaningless! - Ecclesiastes 1:2

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#4 2015-02-14 07:07:50

bob bundy
Administrator
Registered: 2010-06-20
Posts: 8,601

Re: Meet this Challenge

hi Chris,

In puzzle books they give you grids into which you can put crosses for combinations that are impossible.  They always give just enough information so that you can eventually eliminate everything except the one solution.  I think that's how Phrontister does them.  If you do a search through his posts you might find an example (sorry I couldn't but I think there's one there).

I don't like to use that method as it seems to take away a lot of the thinking, so I've devised my own method:

I start a spreadsheet with columns for all the attributes {name, car, book owned, ...etc)

Then I make one row for each given fact.  Sometimes an attribute comes up again in which case I put the second instance into the row where it first came up.  eg the book Mulatka Gabriela comes up more than once so you can amalgamate those rows.

You end up with lots of rows (too many) with lots of empty cells.  But you can spot some rows that must go with others just from the empty spaces, so you can start to amalgamate more rows.  Every time you do that, the number of possibilities goes down and you start to home in on the unique solution.

Good luck with solving smile

Bob


Children are not defined by school ...........The Fonz
You cannot teach a man anything;  you can only help him find it within himself..........Galileo Galilei
Sometimes I deliberately make mistakes, just to test you!  …………….Bob Bundy smile

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#5 2015-02-14 13:29:37

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 4,631

Re: Meet this Challenge

Hi;

I solved the puzzle this morning. It's quite long, but nice and challenging...and there's just a single solution.

For these types of logic puzzles I use the method described here.

And here is a link to my worksheet layout and comments re the "Who lives in the city?" puzzle. The worksheet will need to be adapted to suit this puzzle, of course...which is half the fun!!

Hope that helps. smile

PS...Re the two challenge questions:
(a) "Who likes Violet?"......The couple to whom that refers can be determined well before the end.
(b) "And can you find out everything about everyone from this?"......Yes.

Last edited by phrontister (2015-02-15 01:25:06)


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#6 2015-02-18 16:31:15

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 4,631

Re: Meet this Challenge

Hi Bob,

I don't like to use that method as it seems to take away a lot of the thinking...

Yes, I'd agree that the 'process of elimination' method I gave links to in my previous post does reduce the amount of thinking required. It's faster, but even so usually still needs a fair bit of reasoning...as I found with this puzzle, which had a couple of tricky spots.

Stung into action by your observation wink, I thought I'd have a go at solving the puzzle via the 'insightful narrative' route, such as the kind you'd find in the Solutions section of Logic Puzzles books.

I did away with the usual working grids and drew a grid in Excel for answers only, with a large blank section to the right of it for entering my reasoning...in numbered list form. To help speed up scanning and locating info, I used bold coloured text in the clues...also in the grid headings.

I used Excel to help with visual aids, such as to:
(a) move husband/wife cell groups to align solved couples;
(b) grey out solved clues;
(c) fill the cell of used-but-not-solved clues with a light colour (eg, pale yellow).

I took off like a rocket on the easy stuff, but quickly slowed right down when the time came to think! Eventually got there, but not as insightfully as I would've liked. The experts seem to have a knack for this...

Anyway, I got greater satisfaction this time around than with the 'speedy' method.

So...thanks. smile

cqhtHW6.jpg

Last edited by phrontister (2017-02-25 22:04:04)


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#7 2015-02-22 00:21:49

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 4,631

Re: Meet this Challenge

Hi Christy,

I already have it on a chart, with all the eight names...

I guess you mean the eight surnames. I may be wrong, but I reckon you'll strike trouble doing it that way. I think a better choice would be to focus on the 16 first names.

Can you please give me a hint...

Coming right up! smile

You can see from our posts that there are several different strategies for solving this puzzle. In my previous post I gave the reason for preferring the 'insightful narrative' method (that's just a term I made up), but the choice is yours, of course.

Here's a start for you (see image) if you want to use that method, and I'll explain some things about it and give you some tips...

The yellow highlighted entry in the first line of the 'solutions list' column to the right of the clues is just an explanation of notations I use throughout the reasonings in the list. The notations help keep the wording concise so it all fits better per line, and they also help to identify info when scanning the clues list and the solutions list while working on a solution.

The "{x}" notation (with curly brackets, where "x" stands for the item number in the solutions list) is useful when, in subsequent list entries, you want to refer to solutions already found.

Below that first line I enter all the reasoning used to solve the puzzle.

I think it's important to begin with entering all the obvious solutions you can find in the clues for each person. I've given two such solutions for the first item in the list (there are several more, but I'll leave them for you to find):

"1. Fill obvious given solutions for each person from clues [1], [3], etc".

The "[1]" and "[3]" (with square brackets) refer to clues 1 and 3, and I've entered the solutions onto the grid in the image.

Of course, for clue 1 we can only enter the answers into Daniella's cells at this early stage and not into her husband's, as we don't know yet who he is. When we find that out, all his details and Daniella's should immediately be shared between them.

You'll need to identify the composition of all eight couples, and I'd recommend aligning husbands with their wives as soon as possible. I number the couples C1 to C8.

Aligning is easily done in a spreadsheet by relocating the grid cells involved, but other tactics can be used too: eg, numbering the couples, or shading the cell containing their first names with identifying colours. I align and colour, as you'll see in the image for the next item in the list:

"2. C1=Owen & Victoria, who like brown[3]".

Compare the image below with the one in my previous post to see what I've done re the following:

phrontister wrote:

I used Excel to help with visual aids, such as to:
(a) move husband/wife cell groups to align solved couples;
(b) grey out solved clues;
(c) fill the cell of used-but-not-solved clues with a light colour (eg, pale yellow).

fVoqMZ9.jpg

Keeping a clearly notated list of your solutions to which you can refer will help with troubleshooting (should the need arise), and can avoid having to make a complete restart following a blunder!

All the best with this! smile

Last edited by phrontister (2017-03-03 12:44:38)


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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