Discussion about math, puzzles, games and fun. Useful symbols: ÷ × ½ √ ∞ ≠ ≤ ≥ ≈ ⇒ ± ∈ Δ θ ∴ ∑ ∫ π -¹ ² ³ °

You are not logged in.

- Topics: Active | Unanswered

bobbym wrote:

And how on earth with your method can you get all the primes from

2 to (999999999999999999999999997162534177277277277271 )/2 ?

I do not know but how would you?

'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'

'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'

I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

Offline

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 105,303

I would not use his method.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.****No great discovery was ever made without a bold guess. **

Offline

**martnSpruce****Member**- Registered: 2014-02-08
- Posts: 25

I said that you need all primes X/2 to sieve X. Isnt this obivious?

*Last edited by martnSpruce (2014-02-09 06:09:24)*

Offline

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 105,303

So what can we say about a theory that only goes up to 200000? My electric bill was higher than that.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.****No great discovery was ever made without a bold guess. **

Offline

**martnSpruce****Member**- Registered: 2014-02-08
- Posts: 25

if you will prove its wrong for higher numbers - its wrong. Thats how we meet - I need help

But is wave theory is correct larger waves thatn X/2 are not interfering number X at all.

*Last edited by martnSpruce (2014-02-09 06:11:11)*

Offline

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 105,303

But it is not wrong. It is the Sieve of Eratosthenes. It is already well known and not that useful because we live in a finite world. There are much better methods for generating primes.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.****No great discovery was ever made without a bold guess. **

Offline

**martnSpruce****Member**- Registered: 2014-02-08
- Posts: 25

Thats why I thought we missunderstood each other. Im not here to generate numbers but to check wave theory that will give a proof that primes are not in random positions.

Offline

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 105,303

Your wave theory is saying nothing about the primes themselves. It is saying the multiples of the primes are predictable. Do we not already know that?

Thats why I thought we missunderstood each other. Im not here to generate numbers but to check wave theory that will give a proof that primes are not in random positions.

How can you prove that? It is one of the great unsolved problems facing mathematics. People since Eratosthenes have been aware of your sieve method. Why draw big conclusions from it? Why not believe that it just very slowly generates primes?

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.****No great discovery was ever made without a bold guess. **

Offline

My electric bill was higher than that.

You're posing threats to the society!

'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'

'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'

I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

Offline

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 105,303

New power company. Reppies own it.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.****No great discovery was ever made without a bold guess. **

Offline

**martnSpruce****Member**- Registered: 2014-02-08
- Posts: 25

Well because primes are irrelevant for me. I need to make sure that 'noise' they are generating together is not random.

Since then I can predict noise endlesly for any known prime numbers range.

@above - thats why I need larger primes generated, but according to Erostrathes sieve sounds proofable

*Last edited by martnSpruce (2014-02-09 06:27:46)*

Offline

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 105,303

Okay, what exactly are you trying to prove?

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.****No great discovery was ever made without a bold guess. **

Offline

**martnSpruce****Member**- Registered: 2014-02-08
- Posts: 25

according to the pdf - that every next free spot is a prime number, and this is exactly next prime. That will prove me that primes are not random, they have wave behavior and prime numbers 'noise' in given range can be always decoded and predicted endlesly.

*Last edited by martnSpruce (2014-02-09 06:35:48)*

Offline

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 105,303

It proves it to you but it does not prove it to me. Yes, the next spot is always a prime but if you look you will see the spacing between them is quite unpredictable. Sometimes 2, sometimes a lot more.

In mathematics you have to prove things so that you convince others. Convincing yourself is quite easy.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.****No great discovery was ever made without a bold guess. **

Offline

**martnSpruce****Member**- Registered: 2014-02-08
- Posts: 25

If you draw waves nothing looks random. If result is always true there is nothing to prove I belive.

If this is right theory, if you send the message in to the space using primes in frequencies, you are able to decode when it was sent even after milion years or how it will sound after the milion years.

you can also use it to encryption that is like impossible to decode.

Offline

Use solar panels

'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'

'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'

I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

Offline

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 105,303

It is easy to make encryptions that would be impossible to decode. I am afraid you can not predict the next prime without doing all the sieving up to some large number. The patterns are difficult if not impossible without calculating the others. You can not draw a big conclusion off of a small sample of 200000.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.****No great discovery was ever made without a bold guess. **

Offline

**martnSpruce****Member**- Registered: 2014-02-08
- Posts: 25

prediction for noise is not the prediction for next prime.

And you are right - I need bigger numbers, to draw conclusion for bigger numbers

Offline

bobbym wrote:

It is easy to make encryptions that would be impossible to decode. I am afraid you can not predict the next prime without doing all the sieving up to some large number. The patterns are difficult if not impossible without calculating the others. You can not draw a big conclusion off of a small sample of 200000.

Why were you scaring me the other day, then?

Nothing impossible, just infeasible

'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'

I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

Offline

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 105,303

The problem to getting bigger numbers is not just a problem of who has the biggest machine. The sieve is notoriously slow and uses a lot of memory. Perhaps numbers as large as 300 000 000 could be done with a fast compiler and lots of RAM. But even if you achieve this you still will not be able to say anything about numbers larger than that.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.****No great discovery was ever made without a bold guess. **

Offline

**martnSpruce****Member**- Registered: 2014-02-08
- Posts: 25

How much schoud be primes sequence made by using this method to make people belive that this "could be" a way how primes are placed on integrals array?

Offline

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 105,303

No number! When you prove things you have to prove for all numbers. Infinity is way too big for any computer.

The spacing between the primes for now is unpredictable.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.****No great discovery was ever made without a bold guess. **

Offline

**martnSpruce****Member**- Registered: 2014-02-08
- Posts: 25

well every time sive works it's a proof that primes are not unpredictable, and waves are showing rules for that. but its ok, im rather not here to talk endlesly but to find someone who could help me somehow.

Offline

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 105,303

You have to accept help to be helped.

well every time sive works it's a proof that primes are not unpredictable

Just because you can determine whether a number is prime or not does not imply that there is some obvious pattern in the primes.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.****No great discovery was ever made without a bold guess. **

Offline

**martnSpruce****Member**- Registered: 2014-02-08
- Posts: 25

Thanks guys for the feedback. Actually according to wave theory I think Im able to find every next prime and make function for that. Some other guy helped me figured out what Im looking for. But I need some time because I have lot of other things to do, at least few months.

Seems legit in first computations, but it have to be formed as formula, so I need time and patience. If succed that schould be a proof that they are not random placed at all.

Do you know where I could download lot of primes to verify results?

Offline