Math Is Fun Forum
  Discussion about math, puzzles, games and fun.   Useful symbols: ÷ × ½ √ ∞ ≠ ≤ ≥ ≈ ⇒ ± ∈ Δ θ ∴ ∑ ∫ • π ƒ -¹ ² ³ °

You are not logged in.

#2176 2013-02-16 05:48:58

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,658

Re: What do you think?

I do not know that. But, why would you need to?


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

Offline

#2177 2013-02-16 05:53:24

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,672

Re: What do you think?

I would like a closed form if possible for that series.

Mind if I ask why you came to this page in the OEIS?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

Offline

#2178 2013-02-16 05:55:14

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,658

Re: What do you think?

I looked at his probabilities and compared them to mine, and I saw that they were always almost the same, except for a factor. So I calculated the first few factors and found that they matched that sequence on OEIS. Why?


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

Offline

#2179 2013-02-16 06:00:16

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,672

Re: What do you think?

Okay, I was just wondering.

I can get a somewhat closed form for T[5,n] but it is ugly and too complicated you will have to go with the series or the gf.

I will test your 4 conjecture now by simulation.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

Offline

#2180 2013-02-16 06:02:01

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,658

Re: What do you think?

I think it will be easier to extract the coefficient from the GF.

Tell me when you finish the simulations.


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

Offline

#2181 2013-02-16 06:09:04

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,672

Re: What do you think?

Hi;

I got 11.216568 for 1 million, this is very close to your answer. What do you get for 5?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

Offline

#2182 2013-02-16 06:14:12

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,658

Re: What do you think?

Hi bobbym

15.38578772717056256240736291835039673851, or

in closed form.


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

Offline

#2183 2013-02-16 06:18:34

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,672

Re: What do you think?

I am getting 15.387028 for 1 million, that is again very close. Your answer for 2?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

Offline

#2184 2013-02-16 06:21:21

gAr
Member
Registered: 2011-01-09
Posts: 3,479

Re: What do you think?

Hi,

I believe it is;


which matches for n=2,3,4,5

Perhaps we can extract a closed form for that..


"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

Offline

#2185 2013-02-16 06:21:31

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,658

Re: What do you think?

3.774691358024691358024691358024691358025, which agrees with the dice pdf.


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

Offline

#2186 2013-02-16 06:27:17

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,672

Re: What do you think?

Hi;

You got 1223 / 324 for 2 ?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

Offline

#2187 2013-02-16 06:28:58

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,658

Re: What do you think?

Yes!


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

Offline

#2188 2013-02-16 06:29:31

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,672

Re: What do you think?

What do you want to do with your solution?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

Offline

#2189 2013-02-16 06:35:35

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,658

Re: What do you think?

I do not know? Can we send it to that guy?

I have found the formula for general number of wanted appearences (not just for 2, 3, 4 and 5):

f(k):=sum(i*(i-k)!/(6^(i-1))*binomial(i-1,k-1)*coeff(ratexpand((sum(x^j/j!,j,0,k-1))^5),x^(i-k)),i,k,6*k-5);

“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

Offline

#2190 2013-02-16 06:35:42

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,672

Re: What do you think?

Hi gAr;

I did not see you up there, watch out becuase our latex is damaged and does not display plus signs.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

Offline

#2191 2013-02-16 06:36:48

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,658

Re: What do you think?

Didn't see his post either. Looks like gAr and I got the same formula.

Last edited by anonimnystefy (2013-02-16 06:37:04)


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

Offline

#2192 2013-02-16 06:39:52

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,672

Re: What do you think?

Hi;

Yes, I can send it or you can send it. Of course it would be with your name on it. Your final form looks like gAr's.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

Offline

#2193 2013-02-16 06:41:25

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,658

Re: What do you think?

Hi bobbym

You can send it, but before sending it, please send it to me (in a PM or right here).


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

Offline

#2194 2013-02-16 06:46:47

gAr
Member
Registered: 2011-01-09
Posts: 3,479

Re: What do you think?

Hi anonimnystefy and bobbym,

Yes, the final form is the same. I was thinking about egfs and anonimnystefy had a form already. So I started working from there. Maybe we can try for a closed form for some time.
It's late here, see you after a few hours.


"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

Offline

#2195 2013-02-16 06:47:30

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,672

Re: What do you think?

Hi;

I think you should post it first right under where I talk about it in the other thread. That will establish the date.

How will we get latex to him in an email?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

Offline

#2196 2013-02-16 06:48:09

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,658

Re: What do you think?

Hi gAr

Maybe you guys can get an asymptotic form if all else fails...

See you later!

Hi bobbym

Which thread?

Last edited by anonimnystefy (2013-02-16 06:49:07)


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

Offline

#2197 2013-02-16 06:49:35

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,672

Re: What do you think?

Hi gAr;

See you later. Have a good night.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

Offline

#2198 2013-02-16 06:52:55

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,658

Re: What do you think?

Hi bobbym

Which thread?


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

Offline

#2199 2013-02-16 06:55:19

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,672

Re: What do you think?

http://www.mathisfunforum.com/viewtopic.php?id=18866

Be thorough. I will lock the thread after you are done. I am going to take a little break now see you then.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

Offline

#2200 2013-02-16 06:56:58

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,658

Re: What do you think?

Thorough? About what?


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB