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#1 2013-01-03 05:10:42

picsolife
Member
Registered: 2013-01-03
Posts: 27

segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

Hello BobbyM,

Jimmy suggested I give you a try.
I am trying to find a way to segment an ultrasound volume data set from either cartesian files or DiCom standards and convert to a stereolithographic file.
I have tried a number of different avenues with other people but the usual and standard problems and frailties of the human condition continue to be an issue. 
Might you have an idea of where to begin (once again for me), and what can I provide to you in order to give you more information and the myriad of challenges that continue to present themselves.

Thanks in advance for even considering this.


Si fallatis officium, quaestor infitios eat se quicquam scire de factis vestris.

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#2 2013-01-03 05:17:13

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,562

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

Hi picsolife;

Welcome to the forum. jimmyR has an exaggerated sense of my abilities.

Imagine I know nothing about your problem, which is pretty close. Explain it to me like that, maybe I can help.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

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#3 2013-01-03 05:55:49

picsolife
Member
Registered: 2013-01-03
Posts: 27

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

Stereolithographic files are oriented in cubic pixels while ultrasound volumes are oriented in conic voxels.
Stereolithography is a type of 3-D printing which constructs objects from the bottom up by layering material into whatever it may be.  (see rapid prototyping)
There are ways of converting 3-D Voxels into the STL pixels. I just don't know how to do it.  Go to forever-baby.com.  That is what it is all about.  Those were constructed by a vendor who wanted to take over the concept as his own and has since been kicked to the curb by me.  Now I'm in the dubious position of trying to work this out on my own with which I have no free time to accomplish due to work load and other commitments.
Once you see the finished product on the web site, you will have an idea of what I'm trying to do.
I suppose you're being a bit modest about your abilities, which is well taken.  He is quite proud of you.


Si fallatis officium, quaestor infitios eat se quicquam scire de factis vestris.

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#4 2013-01-03 07:06:22

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,562

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

Hi;

I see the finished product and assume the data for that is in some form or other and you want to change it to something else.

What does that data look like?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

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#5 2013-01-03 07:15:20

picsolife
Member
Registered: 2013-01-03
Posts: 27

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

like a cone with a concave top and convex bottom.  This then fills into any number of file types including cartesian etc. directly from the ultrasound machine.
The STL files are basically only accept cubes ie; XYZ coordinates.
This is how I've been lead to understand it in the most basic form.


Si fallatis officium, quaestor infitios eat se quicquam scire de factis vestris.

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#6 2013-01-03 07:18:43

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,562

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

You want to convert volumetric pixels ( voxels ) to xyz coordinates?

What is the size of the files in Gigabytes?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

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#7 2013-01-03 07:46:28

picsolife
Member
Registered: 2013-01-03
Posts: 27

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

11.5 to 15 MB but it can vary to greater or smaller depending on the size of the subject.


Si fallatis officium, quaestor infitios eat se quicquam scire de factis vestris.

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#8 2013-01-03 07:54:09

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,562

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

Hi;

These files, what is the extension on the end of them?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

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#9 2013-01-03 08:16:13

picsolife
Member
Registered: 2013-01-03
Posts: 27

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

I'm not sure of what you mean by extensions. 
Sorry...human deficits abound within....


Si fallatis officium, quaestor infitios eat se quicquam scire de factis vestris.

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#10 2013-01-03 08:20:11

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,562

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

Okay, at then end of any file you have on your machine or CD or DVD there will be a little .something at the end of it.

A word file might be called money.txt or girlfriends.doc The .txt and .doc are called extensions.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

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#11 2013-01-03 08:36:37

picsolife
Member
Registered: 2013-01-03
Posts: 27

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

One of the volume reconstruction programs that I use is called 4D View.  If the volume is saved in that format then the extension is .4dv.  I'm not sure what the extension would be for other formats in that the 4D View is a prioritized software from GE Healthcare that is used by myself and the perinatologist with which I work.


Si fallatis officium, quaestor infitios eat se quicquam scire de factis vestris.

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#12 2013-01-03 08:41:34

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,562

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

Okay, that is a start.

Then you want change them over to a STL mesh of xyz. It will probably require a program to do that.

Being called away from the machine for a chore see you a little later.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

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#13 2013-01-03 08:48:26

picsolife
Member
Registered: 2013-01-03
Posts: 27

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

I'll be back in a bit myself in that work and patients are calling....
more this afternoon. 
Thanks for your help.


Si fallatis officium, quaestor infitios eat se quicquam scire de factis vestris.

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#14 2013-01-03 09:10:51

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,562

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

Hi;

It appears from what I understand is the you just need to open these files. So far I am finding nothing but the GE program that will open them. Could you have used that program to save them in some other extension other than .4dv?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

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#15 2013-01-03 10:17:35

picsolife
Member
Registered: 2013-01-03
Posts: 27

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

These volume files can be opened in any numer of different files, mostly in a dicom standard or cartesian coordinates.  The cartesian coordinates do not seem to work very well at all.  So what I need is a segmentation program between the 4-D View program and a conversion program that actually contsructs the volume in a STL type file such as "Mimics" from Materialise.  They are able to contruct in STL formats from CT and MRI not to mentions CAD programs etc..?


Si fallatis officium, quaestor infitios eat se quicquam scire de factis vestris.

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#16 2013-01-03 11:32:30

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,562

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

Hi;

You do not have Mimics, so you you are looking for a replacement that does the same thing?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

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#17 2013-01-03 11:42:25

picsolife
Member
Registered: 2013-01-03
Posts: 27

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

nope but I think I can get Mimics soon.  It's very expensive.  I need a bridge between 4-D VIew and Mimics and or other conversion programs.


Si fallatis officium, quaestor infitios eat se quicquam scire de factis vestris.

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#18 2013-01-03 11:49:52

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,562

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

Hi;

Mimics claims that their program will do the segmentation. It will import DICOM, JPEG, TIFF, BMP, or Raw image data.

Is this the GE program we are talking about?

http://www.volusonclub.net/emea/4dview/downloads


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

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#19 2013-01-03 12:13:59

picsolife
Member
Registered: 2013-01-03
Posts: 27

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

THe only problem is that it really doesn't.  I have submitted volumes to them only to have them inform me of the short comings.  They need something to bring it out of 4dv into their program.  4dv doesn't provide that ability in the exporting process.


Si fallatis officium, quaestor infitios eat se quicquam scire de factis vestris.

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#20 2013-01-03 12:16:49

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,562

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

I am starting to see that. The link I gave in post#18 is this the program we are discussing?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

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#21 2013-01-03 12:34:16

picsolife
Member
Registered: 2013-01-03
Posts: 27

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

Yes.  I have a more extensive version of that because of my profession, but that is the one.


Si fallatis officium, quaestor infitios eat se quicquam scire de factis vestris.

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#22 2013-01-03 12:35:59

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,562

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

Does it really come with a dongle?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

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#23 2013-01-03 12:37:52

picsolife
Member
Registered: 2013-01-03
Posts: 27

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

It' time for me to say good bye for the day.  I can't thank you enough for your interest.  If you stumble upon something before the morrow, please give me a shout at my e-mail address.  I will be checking that later this evening but for now it's off to the chamber for intrusive behavior propagated on gravid ladies.


Si fallatis officium, quaestor infitios eat se quicquam scire de factis vestris.

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#24 2013-01-03 12:42:33

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 90,562

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

Okay, sorry I could not be more help. If I get something I will send it to you.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

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#25 2013-01-04 04:11:11

picsolife
Member
Registered: 2013-01-03
Posts: 27

Re: segmentation of volume data sets by ultrasound and conversion process

Hi, I'm back.
Yep, the program does come with a dongle (haptic device) but there is a free version that is a little limited.  For our purposes, the free ware works ok for experimenting.


Si fallatis officium, quaestor infitios eat se quicquam scire de factis vestris.

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