You can perceive 3 because it is part of decimal system. Human developed numbers according to our fingers. How many fingers do you have? 10...so what is 3? ..one two three fingers..can you calculate 1/2? yes..0.5 or half fingers..can you quantify 1/3..no way..until forever 3333333 would go on. There is no absolute value you can quantify from 1/3 using our finger system or decimal! Infinity is a concept but numbers is real..if you play with infinity then you compromise many things. Therefore, anything deals with the infinity like irrational numbers decimal places..you can never actually write it down, the fraction we representing them is more like a symbol not a value. I can prove you that 0.999999999.. can never be 1 because (1-0.99999999999..)x infinity not equal to zero. Yet (1-1) x infinity=0! Can you give me three apples? Yes you can but can you give me exactly

apples? I hope you could:)

I think we human didn't invent numbers because it is already there even before we existed. We discovered mathematics and we don't invent anything dealing with mathematics. For example, Pythagoras didn't invent his theorem but he discovered it. This is because the movement our our galaxy, sun, earth, planets etc  involved Pythagoras mathematics long before we existed on this planet.

Basically x^0=1 because

and

Mathematics is a knowledge field that depend on proof because if anything could contradict it, would prove it wrong. Pythagoras believed that numbers were not only the way to truth, but truth itself. http://www.ancient.eu.com/article/213/ . While a concept not always true, could be wrong sometimes!

Last edited by Stangerzv (2012-06-24 23:04:10)

*Pythagoras was not the world's first mathematician.  * I didn't say he was the first mathematicians but I gave his name as example. Mathematics was there even before human were first on earth. This universe is governed by mathematics billions years ago, I think the first concept of singularity ever known to us is the creation of this universe, when t=0, the volume of universe is zero but with infinite density. If you read the Hindus manuscripts you would find that they had done earlier many of the mathematics found in Europe or Middle East. Yet Hindus civilization not even older than the Sumerian in Iraq, Sumerians had Pythagorean triple ages ago written on stone tablet. Where ever you found wheel or circle, then you can find pi and Pythagoras theorem. Now they found a new civilization in Turkey dated back 12,000 years and they predated the invention of wheels. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ0ViMVxKZA&feature=related

Last edited by Stangerzv (2012-06-25 11:13:16)

Sorry anonimnystefy..not mass but density. Like the birth of supernova, in the beginning of its creation, the mass of 1 miligram of it could be several times or perhaps million times more dense than our entire solar system masses combined together. I think imaginary numbers are like the images in the mirror, they look real but just images and they need real things to exist.

To be honest we are not real too:) Nothing is real actually in this world, our intelligence is about comparing things, the unit of Energy Joule is not exactly a unit of energy in real sense but representation of comparison what this guy name could do to a temperature etc. Even a meter length is not real but a comparison of a metal bar stored somewhere in France. Numbers act the same ways too. They are there for us to compare but there are numbers we can't compared like irrational, imaginary and infinity numbers. Basically, astrophysics got to do with mathematics, like singularity 1/0, it doesn't exist in our limited knowledge yet it does exist in the formation of this universe or black holes for examples. The 0.99999999.... is the same thing as playing with singularity, to get 0.99999..you need to do this 1/(1000000..recurring zeros until infinity and at the end of infinity you need to finish it with digit 1). Maybe all numbers are real, even the irrational, imaginary,infinity etc but our brain capacity couldn't cope with it. Like we could have a perfect circle yet pi is irrational. We could draw a perfect square with a unit sides yet we failed to measure its diagonal with 100% accuracy. We can see it yet we can't measure accurately 100%, it is sad somehow:). There is limitation in us to understand all mathematics but if there is the One who invented mathematics that we found in this universe He must be endless genius and He is either infinite or more than it.

Of course you are right! I didn't mean all numbers are real of course there are imaginary numbers etc. But in sense of human capability of understanding it, even when it is real number it doesn't looks real to our understanding like the value of pi, we can have exact circle yet the pi in it is irrational, it is a mystery. I just pointing that, that even the so call  imaginary numbers does exist in many real things or coexist with real numbers like roots of equation. Not people like Ramanujan formulated 1+2+3+4...=-1/12 got carried away? Maths were based on thinking and opinions of people and there are some maths which were considered fringe science and later on were proven to be true. Words or languages evolved through times and we human made them, English didn't exist 50,000 thousands years ago, same with the word GOOGLE, this word wasn't there before us. Unless you do believe that human was from Adam and Eve and they already made with language embedded in them. Mathematics is the only thing that you can make all people to agree 100% that something is true or not, our opinions differ but not the mathematics. Pythagoras Theorem doesn't need our opinion to be true, itself is true, we give opinions and the true opinion will fill in the gap eventually. This is why you can give your opinions what ever you like because restricting opinions would make Mathematics static. From garbage opinions there could be something true.

Basically, I don't think I am too much to say if there is the One who invented the mathematics the one must be super genius etc. Because not the same thing applies in the quest of God particle or Higg Boson? They had built multi billions facility to find this mystery thing which is is thought to be the most fundamental subatomic particles which could be the fundamental building block of this universe. http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/nov/07/massive-hunt-god-particle-ian-sample-review . They built 7.5 billions Euros Hydra Collider to find God Particle, shouldn't they keep the word God out of this too? Perhaps Euler, one of the greatest mathematicians shouldn't even ventured further to proof the existence of God http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonhard_Euler#cite_note-41 because is it not ethical to link anything to one's belief? Our knowledge evolved from people opinions regardless what they are believing in and I stand on this.

Hi Bobbym!

I like all numbers:). I am currently working of sums of power for non-integers. There is a lot of things making us confused when dealing with infinity. Here is my Riemman's Zeta Function derived using my sums of power formulation.

By letting s=2, this equation would give you 4 not (pi^2)/6.

As for integers I am done with them, I had formulated enough formulation for them on my capability. Now I am working on non-integers but not like whole numbers, what you get from non-integers is approximation. I have developed numerical analysis for non-integers power like how to add this equation

, the method not that amazing because sometimes it takes you to infinity to calculate a simple value.

Last edited by Stangerzv (2012-06-25 18:06:55)

Stangerzv wrote:

Of course you are right! I didn't mean all numbers are real of course there are imaginary numbers etc. But in sense of human capability of understanding it, even when it is real number it doesn't looks real to our understanding like the value of pi, we can have exact circle yet the pi in it is irrational, it is a mystery. I just pointing that, that even the so call  imaginary numbers does exist in many real things or coexist with real numbers like roots of equation. Not people like Ramanujan formulated 1+2+3+4...=-1/12 got carried away? Maths were based on thinking and opinions of people and there are some maths which were considered fringe science and later on were proven to be true. Words or languages evolved through times and we human made them, English didn't exist 50,000 thousands years ago, same with the word GOOGLE, this word wasn't there before us. Unless you do believe that human was from Adam and Eve and they already made with language embedded in them. Mathematics is the only thing that you can make all people to agree 100% that something is true or not, our opinions differ but not the mathematics. Pythagoras Theorem doesn't need our opinion to be true, itself is true, we give opinions and the true opinion will fill in the gap eventually. This is why you can give your opinions what ever you like because restricting opinions would make Mathematics static. From garbage opinions there could be something true.

Basically, I don't think I am too much to say if there is the One who invented the mathematics the one must be super genius etc. Because not the same thing applies in the quest of God particle or Higg Boson? They had built multi billions facility to find this mystery thing which is is thought to be the most fundamental subatomic particles which could be the fundamental building block of this universe. http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/nov/07/massive-hunt-god-particle-ian-sample-review . They built 7.5 billions Euros Hydra Collider to find God Particle, shouldn't they keep the word God out of this too? Perhaps Euler, one of the greatest mathematicians shouldn't even ventured further to proof the existence of God http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonhard_Euler#cite_note-41 because is it not ethical to link anything to one's belief? Our knowledge evolved from people opinions regardless what they are believing in and I stand on this.

Now you are contradicting yourself. If all mathematical concepts were created by some supreme being before the humans, then shouldn't the same be true for words.

But I don't think they were created by anyone or anybody. They just were and are and will be.

hi TESTU

Would be the same as Gathering All the Stars in the Universe ?? and then putting them in a Box and Calling the Box 1

Mmmmm.  But there are only a finite number of stars.  And you could just as easily call the box 'fred'

If you want an analogy how about this one.

A frog starts hopping at point A.  His first hop is 1 metre.  His second is 1/2 metre.  His third is 1/4 metre.  And so on, each hop half the size of the one before.

He is aiming to reach point B which is 2 metres from A.  Does he get there?

Bob

Have to Correct You Bob! There can only be a finite number of stars!... If the Whole Universe has been Mapped!?

Which won't Happen in Your life time or Mine!



This should Help any Doubters!...And is a Very Good example Why Estimated Math is BAD Math!

And the Reason Why Infinite/Recurring 0.999... = 1 ? Is Estimated Math!



http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/12/01/the-estimated-number-of-stars-in-the-universe-just-tripled/

Last edited by TESTU (2012-06-28 00:51:26)

Hi TESTU;

Sorry, to interrupt these talks but don't you have a problem in the other thread concerning lotto that need clarification? Or do you no longer need the answer?

Hi anonimnystefy

The derivation is quite lengthy:

By using my formulation for sums of power for integers and non-integers power, you would get this relationship,

Setting p=-s

Taking limit n to infinity and simplifying the coefficients yields,

Further simplifying you get the equation above. Take note that when p is non-integers, the coefficients of sums of power become unbounded.

Last edited by Stangerzv (2012-06-28 18:51:02)

Hi Stangerzv 1/0 = 1 Because No Value has been Divided into the Start Value of 1

I am sure the Universe is Bigger than 1 ... But 1 what! ? 1 x the Largest Space we Can Calculate! But then we are Back to  Estimated Math!