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**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 3,979

But you seemed such an expert after the XXXX beer can in an earlier post. See how it all ties up?

That's the misperception builder at work.

*Last edited by phrontister (2012-06-12 05:24:03)*

"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 3,979

edit: Of course, I do mean up.

Ok then...so now we understand each other. I'd just let go of the wheel, let gravity do its job for a while to allow me to fall up towards the floor for a bit, pull the ripcord on the parachute that I carry when travelling with people from that other hemisphere, and then I'd float gently up to the ground...from your inverted perspective.

"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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**bob bundy****Moderator**- Registered: 2010-06-20
- Posts: 6,787

Question. This parachute; is it above your head or below it. Hhmmm. Better avoid above and below words here. Let's try this. Which is the correct order: you, parachute, ground OR parachute, you, ground ?

Bob

You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him find it within himself..........Galileo Galilei

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**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 3,979

The latter.

Oh, yes...I forgot to mention that during my ascent I performed a perfect reverse 4½ somersault tuck prior to opening the 'chute.

The Cameron Diaz came from an earlier bobbym post too. And he recently admitted his age to be 90. Not that I believe him as he has also claimed to be 6! (that's 6 exclamation not factorial!)

He'd claim the factorial option. You've opened the door.

Btw, have you seen this? It settles the question of bobbym's age. He hasn't solved the puzzle yet...cos he doesn't want to find out how old he actually is, I suppose.

"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 3,979

Bedtime for me, Bob. Nice puzzling and chatting.

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**bob bundy****Moderator**- Registered: 2010-06-20
- Posts: 6,787

Goodnight. Sleep well! [or more likely, good morning, as you are reading this tomorrow; hope you slept well.]

Thanks for the bobbym puzzle. I hadn't seen it before.

That should give me something to think about.

edit at 21.38

Ok I've got the telephone number. Just used a pencil and paper and less than 1 side of tractor feed computer paper (got to use it up somehow, what printer still does matrix dot printing these days?)

But, I'm confused about YOP? Am I just allowed to peek at the date of that post (I haven't yet) or is this mystery number to be deduced from all the other clues.

Ok. Don't answer if you think I have sufficient clues and should figure this out for myself. [but tell me you are not answering or I'll go mad with frustration!]

Bob

ps. I tried ringing her, but she must be out.

You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him find it within himself..........Galileo Galilei

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**MathsIsFun****Administrator**- Registered: 2005-01-21
- Posts: 7,559

I can post the "Ferris Wheel" to the puzzles if you guys agree.

"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..." - Leon M. Lederman

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**bob bundy****Moderator**- Registered: 2010-06-20
- Posts: 6,787

I did wonder if you'd suggest that.

It's got a lot of 'in' jokes that might not read well for the general member. I'll modify it if you want to post it.

What do the rest of the 'gang of four' think?

Bob

You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him find it within himself..........Galileo Galilei

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**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 3,979

Hi Bob,

Yes, I like the idea of your pule's (sorry...just woke up) inclusion in MIF's pules.

I did a quick re-read of it, and possibly the only 'in' joke that really could do with some modification or comment is the one regarding my 'upside-down-ness'. A reference to my being Australian (from 'The Land Down Under'), or some such, could do it.

Others from the 'gang of four' might see something re their situation that could do with some modifying.

*Last edited by phrontister (2012-06-12 10:55:33)*

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**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 3,979

Hi Bob,

But, I'm confused about YOP? Am I just allowed to peek at the date of that post (I haven't yet) or is this mystery number to be deduced from all the other clues.

The following quote is from this puzzle (note that I'm waking up) that started it all:

I didn't compose Part A - a good friend of mine did, and had it published in a puzzle magazine...which also published her solution strategy. She was quite interested to find out that I'd added a Part B to her puzzle, but sadly she's also very interested in avoiding trying to solve it!

Sorry, but I didn't think to include that info for you before because I overlooked that bobbym already knew it from having seen my earlier puzzle...which you may not have.

My YOB puzzle differs a bit from bobbym's because of our different YOBs.

My YOB thread contains several solution methods to part A that you might like to have a look at. They won't help with a solution to part B...other than confirming that your springboard to part B doesn't have a great big crack in it!

...what printer still does matrix dot printing these days?

A dot matrix printer...like the one I saw in a shop the other day and wondered why there was such a long queue of customers waiting at the checkout!

*EDIT*: Bob, should I start a new thread for bobbym's YOB puzzle? From the track record with the two YOB puzzles I don't think they're the kind to attract much interest, so it may not interrupt your thread much. If so, I'll have to do it later cos I'm off to work now.

*Last edited by phrontister (2012-06-12 11:22:26)*

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**anonimnystefy****Real Member**- From: The Foundation
- Registered: 2011-05-23
- Posts: 15,889

I am for including it. I am just a little worried because of privacy issues.

Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most. ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

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**bob bundy****Moderator**- Registered: 2010-06-20
- Posts: 6,787

Can you be specific?

I have already said I'd edit it.

Bob

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**anonimnystefy****Real Member**- From: The Foundation
- Registered: 2011-05-23
- Posts: 15,889

Well,thinking about it, I realize there isn't much that somebody could find out about me through your puzzle only, so you have a green light on my end.

Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most. ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

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**bob bundy****Moderator**- Registered: 2010-06-20
- Posts: 6,787

hi phrontister

EDIT: Bob, should I start a new thread for bobbym's YOB puzzle? From the track record with the two YOB puzzles I don't think they're the kind to attract much interest, so it may not interrupt your thread much. If so, I'll have to do it later cos I'm off to work now.

It is fine by me to stay here.

I thought I knew the answer to your puzzle so I tried to work it backwards to make sense of the instructions. But that didn't work either, so it's back to the drawing board for me.

Trouble is I cannot even parse the 'Even furthermore still ....' paragraph. Yuck! This is a perfect example of why I prefer pictures!

Bob

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**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 3,979

Hi Bob,

I think forwards is the way forward with this one. Often the backwards trick works - or helps give some understanding - but I doubt it with this puzzle.

That paragraph is definitely parsable. Two people that I know of have solved the original "my YOB" version (not this one of bobbym's): one used Mathematica and the other seems to have too (or with something similar). The first one sent me their M solution, which to my inexperienced eyes seems to be extremely well-written.

I wish I could help you with a graphical interpretation!

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 92,892

Hi phrontister;

I would very much like to see their M solution. Do you still have it?

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.**

**I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.**

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**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 3,979

Hi Bobby,

Yes I do - and one day I'll show it to you - but I didn't want to do that without you shedding blood over your puzzle first!

The intention behind the puzzle is to increase optometrist clientele!

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 92,892

Hi;

I never wanted to brute force through that problem and did spend a lot of time on a mathematical solution. Unfortunately, I could not seem to get one to work.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.**

**I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.**

**Online**

**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 3,979

Hi Bobby,

I guess you've probably shed enough blood over this puzzle (sorry, I hadn't felt your pain), so I'll PM the M solution to you.

The solver has seen through every trick I've played and red herring I've laid and came up with the correct solution. I'm sure you'll like it.

I'll have to find it first, though...it's been so long since I've looked at it that I've lost touch with it. And maybe I'd also like to try to adapt it to your puzzle because the solution is to mine. I think that my puzzle's age differs from my MIF age, btw.

*Last edited by phrontister (2012-06-14 02:59:31)*

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**bob bundy****Moderator**- Registered: 2010-06-20
- Posts: 6,787

hi phrontister

That paragraph is definitely parsable.

I didn't doubt it for a minute. I knew the fault lay with my brain.

After a re-think I decided to apply BODMAS and introduce a variable.

At this point I realised for myself that going backwards wouldn't work.

I then I read that bit about your age and your MIF age and decided that forwards is the only way.

But don't be surprised if there are long periods of apparent silence from me.

Don't think I've gone to sleep. I'm just resting my eyes and thinking.

Bob

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 92,892

Hi phrontister;

Thanks, send it when you can.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.**

**I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.**

**Online**

**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 3,979

Hi Bobby,

I found the M program last night, along with my PMs with the solver re their explanation of the M solution...which I'll send to you as well.

I haven't started trying to convert the solution into your puzzle yet. Won't be long, I hope.

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**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 3,979

Hi Bob,

But don't be surprised if there are long periods of apparent silence from me.

Don't think I've gone to sleep. I'm just resting my eyes and thinking.

I use that line too when I'm supposed to be awake and someone wakes me from my sleep, but I add that I can focus better with my eyes closed.

*Last edited by phrontister (2012-06-14 14:49:29)*

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 92,892

Hi phrontister;

Okay thanks.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.**

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**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 3,979

Hi Bobby and Bob,

I have a big apology to make...I made an error in the wording of the "bobbym's YOB" puzzle!

In the last line of the "Even furthermore still" paragraph, "root of the digit sum" should read "root of twice the digit sum".

I discovered that while working on adapting the solution to my original YOB puzzle to M for the bobbym version...which happily I've now managed to do.

I hope that hasn't been a problem for either of you, but if it has, I'm very sorry.

I've corrected the file-host files and updated the links in the "How old are you bobbym?" thread. Here they are as well:

*Last edited by phrontister (2012-08-18 05:04:23)*

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