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**cotech_10****Member**- Registered: 2012-05-01
- Posts: 9

Hi all,

I know there are limitations and this may be a far out request (I am aware of the millions of permutations), but I would like to know if someone knows how to produce all possible permutations of 5 numbers using numbers from 1 to 45 as well as applying this to 6 and 7 numbers and dumping in an external database with some sort of query tools to filter certain permutations for further analysis.

Once again I know this is a "big ask" and the files maybe many and very LARGE but

would love to hear back from someone..:)

I look forward in hearing back from you soon.

Regards

Chris

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 96,590

Hi;

For 5 number permutations from 1 to 45 there are 146 611 080 permutations. To print each number would take at least 9 or 10 bytes in a text file. So you are looking at a file that is around 1.3 gigabytes.

For six numbers the file is over 52 gigabytes and for 7 it is slightly more than 2 terabytes.

There are other ways to do an analysis on data like that without generating or storing the entire table. Perhaps if you describe your problem...

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.**

**If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**

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**cotech_10****Member**- Registered: 2012-05-01
- Posts: 9

Hi bobbym,

Wow... thanks for the info...

I will get back to you today or:) tomorrow wiht more specifics

Cheers

Chris

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 96,590

Hi;

Please describe the problem thoroughly and maybe a shortcut can be found.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.**

**If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**

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**cotech_10****Member**- Registered: 2012-05-01
- Posts: 9

Hi Bobby,

Just out of curiosity I did a permutation calulation and found that there are

45,379,620 permutations of 7 numbers from 1 to 45 and

8,145,060 permutations of 6 numbers from 1 to 45 and

1,221,759 permutations of 5 numbers from 1 to 45

assuming 1. Order of numbers is not important

2. Cannot repeat a number

Cheers

Chris:)

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 96,590

Hi;

That is not correct. If order does not count then it is not a permutation.

What you have calculated is a combination.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.**

**If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**

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**cotech_10****Member**- Registered: 2012-05-01
- Posts: 9

Hi bobbym,

Sorry you are right ... true...

I meant to refer to the different combinations that can be obtained

With those combination results does that still make the task and output

just as daunting ?:)

Regards

Chris

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 96,590

No much smaller.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.**

**If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**

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**cotech_10****Member**- Registered: 2012-05-01
- Posts: 9

Hi b:)obbym,

Then if so how would you go about it ?

Cheers

Chris

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 96,590

The sizes are still too large,

For 5 = 12 MB

For 6 = 97 MB

For 7 = 635 MB

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.**

**If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**

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**cotech_10****Member**- Registered: 2012-05-01
- Posts: 9

Hi bobbym,

Ok ... What I will do is give you more details and

the parameters around what I need to achieve.

I will not be able to do this until sometime

tomorrow, but really look forward in hoping

something can be done

Cheers

Chris

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 96,590

Okay, see you then. Post it right here when you are ready. Looking forward to it.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.**

**If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**

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**cotech_10****Member**- Registered: 2012-05-01
- Posts: 9

Hi bobbym,

I am back again and still working out the refinement of what I need.

Whilst I am doing so you I would still be interested in creating these

files just the same.

What format would they be in ?

Cheers

Chris

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 96,590

Hi;

Text files with an extension of .txt. I can not create those files because I can not upload anything that large.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.**

**If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**

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**cotech_10****Member**- Registered: 2012-05-01
- Posts: 9

Hi bobbym,

I understand the technical difficulties

but what about file transfer hositng sites ?

I am a subscriber of

transferbigfiles.com The only

problem is that files must be no more

than 100mb in size and maybe for the 7 numbers

combination file we can break the file up into 7

separate files ?

For 5 = 12 MB

For 6 = 97 MB

For 7 = 635 MB

Cheers

Chris

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 96,590

It would take me many hours to upload them. My provider does not give me a lot of upload speed.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.**

**If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**

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**cotech_10****Member**- Registered: 2012-05-01
- Posts: 9

Hi bobbym,

Ok... how long would it take to upload a 12mb file ?

Are you not on ADSL ? Could you write the code

and I could execute the program on my machine ?

Cheers

Chris

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 96,590

The 12 MB file might take 400 seconds that is about 7 minutes.

What do you program in?

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.**

**If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**

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At first bobbym said :

So you are looking at a file that is around 1.3 gigabytes.

For six numbers the file is over 52 gigabytes and for 7 it is slightly more than 2 terabytes.

How can a file containing only 146 611 800 numbers be so large??

'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'

'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'

'But our love is like the wind. I can't see it but I can feel it.' -A Walk to remember

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 96,590

Each character of the 146 611 800 numbers is one byte of a text file. There are 6 characters per number:

9 x 146 611 800 ≈ 1.3 GB

Of course we did not get into compression because the OP never came back to discuss it further.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.**

**If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**

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What is the meaning of OP?

Would you please give the structure of the code?

*Last edited by Agnishom (2012-05-20 01:09:11)*

'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'

'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'

'But our love is like the wind. I can't see it but I can feel it.' -A Walk to remember

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 96,590

Hi;

OP = Original poster.

There is no code. This is not a program.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.**

**If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**

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**anonimnystefy****Real Member**- From: Harlan's World
- Registered: 2011-05-23
- Posts: 15,937

You didn't type it all up yourself,did you? Maybe you just used M and don't cinsider that a code.

Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most. ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 96,590

There is no code, it is just a small estimate of the size of the files he is trying to make. The calculations are trivial.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.**

**If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**

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I was talking about the code for the program which generated those databases.

Would you show us that?

'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'

'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'

'But our love is like the wind. I can't see it but I can feel it.' -A Walk to remember

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