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#1 2012-01-14 22:38:11

nevinsmith
Member
Registered: 2010-05-19
Posts: 39

what has tertiary education turned into?

Hi everyone,
I'm from New Zealand and I work part time at MacDonalds, I'm also a full time university freshmen student.

One thing I realised is that there is quite a lot of fresh university graduates that work at the same
Mac Donalds as me doing the exact same thing being paid minimum wage. Is this kind of math happening
in the States? Fresh Bcom BA BSc graduates working at deadend jobs, and they have been there for like
a year.

Granted New Zealand is in quite an economic crisis right now, and jobs are hard to find. The older professionals are not retiring hence new professionals cannot find niches in society.

The share number of tertiary education providers in my country is astounding, for 4 million people we have about 7 universities and other polytechnics. Almost everyone thats graduating from highschool is now expected to attend university and this saturates the job market with an overabundancy of people with degrees.

Is it just me or has tertiary education became more of a profit driven industry, so the providers can drag the money out of students promising milk and honey at the end of the road only then do they arrive to work at macdonalds.

It seems to me that the only degrees worth doing are tech degrees like medicine, law or engineering while soft degrees such as arts and commerce just come out unemployed. And yet so many students choose to do those degrees as having a bachelors degree has become a minimum prerequesit for even low paid jobs such as call centres.

I've heard that a lot of engineering students (im doing chem-eng) are also graduating unemployed, unless you're an honours student. Is it really that bad? I want to finnish my degree maybe a masters to the best of my abilities and hopefully move to the states. Is unemployment for engineers a serious issue in the States? do companies hire foreigners?

what are your opinions on this? am i the only one thinking that people are suckered into doing useless degrees or forced into it because everyone else has one?

Also, don't laugh but my life goal is to be a billionaire, I'm hoping to start a business probably in the engineering field once i'm out of college and have some work experience/money. So anyone got any advice for a young and foolish person but filled with dreams and ambition like me? Should I be focussing on education right now?

You are all an educated bunch hence I think this is quite a good question to ask here! thanks

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#2 2012-01-14 22:39:49

nevinsmith
Member
Registered: 2010-05-19
Posts: 39

Re: what has tertiary education turned into?

wow i didn't realise the s word was sensored to 'math' lol

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#3 2012-01-14 23:04:24

bob bundy
Moderator
Registered: 2010-06-20
Posts: 6,466

Re: what has tertiary education turned into?

hi nevinsmith

Firstly,

wow i didn't realise the s word was sensored to 'math' lol

Are you saying you typed 'maths' and it was altered automatically to 'math'?

Have a careful look at the url for the main site:

http://www.mathsisfun.com/

And the administrator is 'MathsIsFun'.

Oh, I get it.  You used a naughty word and it got substituted.  Well that's because young innocents use this site.

On the other hand I think 'censored' is spelt the same in all English speaking countries.  lol

Sadly, the situation you describe is happening in the UK too.  I know someone who has a 'first' in maths and computing who cannot get a job except in a lowly paid, minimal skills required, capacity!

Don't know about the US.

Also, don't laugh but my life goal is to be a billionaire,

I'm not laughing.  Seems like a good ambition.  What will determine your success in life is not what bits of paper you have collected but what you can actually do.  So if you can make a success of your own skills in engineering, go for it! Fortunately, there's still a demand for people who are keen, have a good reputation and can show they can deliver.  It'll take a while to build the reputation but you have to start somewhere.  It's what Richard Branson and Bill Gates did and it worked for them.

Good luck to you!  smile

Bob

Last edited by bob bundy (2012-01-14 23:10:02)


You cannot teach a man anything;  you can only help him find it within himself..........Galileo Galilei

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#4 2012-01-15 00:14:58

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 88,594

Re: what has tertiary education turned into?

Hi;

You are all an educated bunch

Who says? Hope that insult was not pointed at me.

This may sound like heresy but a lot of people are coming out of the US school system totally untrained to work in the real world. That is why they are not getting the jobs they want.

Also, don't laugh but my life goal is to be a billionaire

We really do not need any more billionaires. How about the goal of being merely a decent human being? Also, in the coming world hopefully there will be no place for billionaires.
I am wishing 150 million ( adjusted for inflation ) for you. That is as high as I will go.

I do not think less of you or any person who works at McDonalds. I was turned down when I tried to work there.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

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#5 2012-01-15 22:07:17

nevinsmith
Member
Registered: 2010-05-19
Posts: 39

Re: what has tertiary education turned into?

Bobbym,
how is being well educated a bad thing?

Sorry if i anger anybody, just expressing my views on tertiary education being more profit driven.

Also, whats a 'decent person'? and how does wanting to be successful contradict that?

I grew up in a poor family, both my parents are immigrants working in minimum wage jobs, although i'm grateful for them, I'm sick and tired of not seeing any change, being deprived of success I strive for a better future. Is that so wrong?

Once again not trying to anger anyone,

But growing up you hear the saying 'study hard = good job', which may not neccessarily be true anymore.
Just my opinions

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#6 2012-01-15 22:31:47

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 88,594

Re: what has tertiary education turned into?

Hi;

how is being well educated a bad thing?

That was an attempt at humor. A difficult concept for me. But have you ever heard of that Einstein quote? The one about education ruining a persons imagination? I can dig it up. I have heard similar statements from other men, including noteworthy mathematicians. You might be confusing schooling with education.

Also, whats a 'decent person'? and how does wanting to be successful contradict that?

Maybe it does not although you can find people who are willing to argue with that. But given the choice between being a decent human being and being a billionaire, I think you know which one is correct. I also think you know the one most people are choosing.

Sorry if i anger anybody

You did not anger anyone. I enjoy talking with people about things they are experiencing almost as much as I love combinatorics. I am just talking to you as another human being. Your post was interesting, so I responded.

I grew up in a poor family, both my parents are immigrants working in minimum wage jobs, although i'm grateful for them, I'm sick and tired of not seeing any change, being deprived of success I strive for a better future. Is that so wrong

My parents were poor and we lived in a ghetto, the Bedford Stuyvesant area of Brooklyn. Everyone is striving for a better future, but what if you do not make it? Most do not. A billionaire is a guy with too much money and a poor person is that same guy without enough.

How do you measure success? Is it just the 1 billion dollar mark? How about 900 million? Is that being a success? I was just trying to say that your life will not be meaningless because you may not make it to be Bill Gates. To me you working at Mcdonalds is being a success. They did not hire me when I really needed the job.

Is this kind of math happening
in the States?

You also left out my main point, the answer to your question. Over here alot of them are coming out with degrees they did not earn. They are not good, so they do not get any job other than what daddy can buy for them. When one of them is mistakenly hired he damages everyone.

But growing up you hear the saying 'study hard = good job', which may not neccessarily be true anymore.

When was that ever true? There is an old saying here. It is probably long forgotten,"it is not what you know but who you know." Luckily, there are other ways of being a success not just how big your office is or how big your car or how many people call you sir.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

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#7 2012-01-16 16:19:26

nevinsmith
Member
Registered: 2010-05-19
Posts: 39

Re: what has tertiary education turned into?

hi bobbym,
thanks for replying,

Hmm,,, how do i quote? lol

You are right about how success isn't neccesarily defined in terms of wealth, but everyone has their own definitions for success.

For me personally, I would hate to live a normal man's life, I guess Jay Z's lyrics
'I rather die enormous than live dormant' describes my definition of success. A billionaire is just an expression for wealth, I would be quite happy with 150mil lol.

"it is not what you know but who you know."  So true, connections get you further in life than anything, but i just feels that people whos dumped so much money/loans into tertiary education should come out atleast better than working for minimum wage.

What I think could improve the current suituation is to increase the bench mark for university entrance and make the courses a lot harder, not in terms of money but in terms of academics so that only the elites who work hard can enter and graduate from university and therefore not be lumped into the same catagory as 'those who do not earn their degree' upon graduation.
At least then people won't waste money on further education when they do not need it.

Also, do you seriously use Taylor series as an engineer? I noticed that a lot of professors in engineering never really worked as an engineer, I'm just a first year student so don't extensively know the courses but prehaps they should switch degrees into teaching things with more practical use. When I graduated from highschool, I knew heaps about complex numbers but almost nothing about writing a CV, wasn't until i started looking for a job a month later that i really learnt it, and now I feel like I forgot everything about what i did learn in highschool.roflol

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#8 2012-01-16 20:16:11

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 88,594

Re: what has tertiary education turned into?

Hi nevinsmith;

I guess Jay Z's lyrics
'I rather die enormous than live dormant

I have heard that quote many times and in many forms. Do they mean enormous in weight, excessivenes or volume?

I would be quite happy with 150mil lol

I have already set the plans in motion. Just remember be careful what you wish for cause you just might get it.

dumped so much money/loans into tertiary education should come out atleast better than working for minimum wage

I do too but society does not feel that way. I will tell you one thing we all can get from education, something they can not take away, an education!

Taylor Series!!!! I do not know what others do but in Numerical Analysis the Taylor series is the king! It is the backbone of the entire field. Computation that is the future, that is the meat. That is Taylor series! We do not ask whether a series converges or not, like a mere analyst, we get the sum!

One last quote:

At least then people won't waste money on further education when they do not need it.

Education, no matter how you get it is always worth it. Never pass up any chance to educate yourself, that is the real success.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.

I agree with you regarding the satisfaction and importance of actually computing some numbers. I can't tell you how often I see time and money wasted because someone didn't bother to run the numbers.

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