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#1 2016-03-06 16:12:09

Monox D. I-Fly
Member
Registered: 2015-12-02
Posts: 860

[ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

Can an abacus (by abacus here I mean suanpan, the Chinese abacus) be used to do multiplication of two single digit numbers? Like 4 x 8, 7 x 5, 9 x 7, etc. I have been Googling around but all of them only show multiplication with either one or more number have more than one digit. One source even states that an abacus can't be used to multiply a single digit number with another single digit number and students must memorize the multiplication table to be able to multiply using abacus. This is weird to me, if abacus was built to make people count easier and it helps with addition, which is the simplest math operation, why to be able to multiply with abacus you have to memorize the multiplication table, in which multiplication is more complicated than addition?

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#2 2016-03-06 22:18:42

David
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From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2014-04-23
Posts: 3,135

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

When I was in Chinese school, we started memorizing the timetable up to 12 x 12 at a very young age. If I remember correctly, the abacus is not meant to be used as a "calculator"... It lets you keep track of things.


Meaningless, meaningless, Everything is meaningless! - Ecclesiastes 1:2

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#3 2016-03-07 02:04:55

mathaholic
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From: Earth
Registered: 2012-11-29
Posts: 3,251

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

Well, I've tried some abacuses online and I had a hard time using it for multiplication tongue So maybe not


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#4 2016-03-07 05:15:19

Monox D. I-Fly
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Registered: 2015-12-02
Posts: 860

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

I have searched and found out that it could, by repeating the addition process manually...

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#5 2016-03-07 05:53:39

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

Lots of years ago we were also taught the multiplication table at a very early age.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#6 2016-03-07 11:07:09

Monox D. I-Fly
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Registered: 2015-12-02
Posts: 860

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

It's weird that those abacus users can memorize multiplication table but need an abacus to do a simple addition.

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#7 2016-03-07 11:25:41

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

I would think they use it for a bit more than simple addition.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#8 2016-03-07 23:48:23

David
Member
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2014-04-23
Posts: 3,135

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

Monox D. I-Fly wrote:

It's weird that those abacus users can memorize multiplication table but need an abacus to do a simple addition.

They use it to keep track of things. This is interesting... If you can read mandarin. http://baike.baidu.com/view/666642.htm


Meaningless, meaningless, Everything is meaningless! - Ecclesiastes 1:2

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#9 2016-03-08 02:13:20

Monox D. I-Fly
Member
Registered: 2015-12-02
Posts: 860

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

David wrote:
Monox D. I-Fly wrote:

It's weird that those abacus users can memorize multiplication table but need an abacus to do a simple addition.

They use it to keep track of things. This is interesting... If you can read mandarin. http://baike.baidu.com/view/666642.htm

I can't read Mandarin but I know some Kanjis. Why is there the word "heart" (心) in the title?

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#10 2016-03-08 04:52:28

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

I can speak and understand a little Japanese, I can not read Mandarin. I have seen people calculate very quickly with an abacus.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#11 2016-03-08 04:59:38

David
Member
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2014-04-23
Posts: 3,135

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

珠心算 is the art of using abacus while calculating...
心算 is the art of calculating numbers your head without writing it down... (You count in your "heart")

An abacus is like the paper and the pencil combined together...


Meaningless, meaningless, Everything is meaningless! - Ecclesiastes 1:2

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#12 2016-03-08 05:53:23

Monox D. I-Fly
Member
Registered: 2015-12-02
Posts: 860

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

bobbym wrote:

I can speak and understand a little Japanese, I can not read Mandarin. I have seen people calculate very quickly with an abacus.

Do you also know some Kanjis, ボッビーム?

David wrote:

珠心算 is the art of using abacus while calculating...
心算 is the art of calculating numbers your head without writing it down... (You count in your "heart")

What are the meanings of the other Chinese characters?

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#13 2016-03-08 06:08:32

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

Do you also know some Kanjis, ボッビーム?

I do not.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#14 2016-03-08 21:34:28

Monox D. I-Fly
Member
Registered: 2015-12-02
Posts: 860

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

mathaholic wrote:

Well, I've tried some abacuses online and I had a hard time using it for multiplication tongue So maybe not

Can you multiple two numbers which both have two digits?

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#15 2016-03-09 11:36:08

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

I do not know how to use an abacus, but in the old days they could beat guys with adding machines.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#16 2016-03-09 15:15:48

Monox D. I-Fly
Member
Registered: 2015-12-02
Posts: 860

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

Yes, I have read about it. By the way, can abacus be used to count divisions of two single digit numbers, for example, 8:2?

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#17 2016-03-09 16:14:14

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

Hi;

Watching this video I would say on a problem like that you would use mental division.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j6ATeNT1So


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#18 2016-03-09 16:22:18

Monox D. I-Fly
Member
Registered: 2015-12-02
Posts: 860

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

I asked about a suanpan though, not a soroban.

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#19 2016-03-09 18:40:47

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

Yes I know. I was hoping to find any abacus that could do what you requested.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#20 2016-03-10 04:54:17

Monox D. I-Fly
Member
Registered: 2015-12-02
Posts: 860

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

I gave up and just went with repeated subtraction.

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#21 2016-03-10 05:00:39

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

Is this for a program?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#22 2016-03-10 05:02:22

Monox D. I-Fly
Member
Registered: 2015-12-02
Posts: 860

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

No. This time my boss asked me to write a book about abacus.

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#23 2016-03-10 05:09:31

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

Okay, it does not seem to be able to.

The slide rule is like that, it can do lots of nice calculations but you have to place the decimal point!


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#24 2016-03-10 05:19:34

Monox D. I-Fly
Member
Registered: 2015-12-02
Posts: 860

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

This is harder than I imagined.

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#25 2016-03-10 05:22:55

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: [ASK] Can Abacus be Used to Multiply Two Single Digits?

Is the Chinese one significantly different than the Soroban?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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