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#1 2016-01-13 06:31:21

NakulG
Member
Registered: 2014-09-02
Posts: 186

how to solve this?

How to solve this problem

3(x^2+y^2)+2xy=88.
Some solutions do the first derivative and then substitute back into the equation,  but why?
Can we solve it purely by algebra?

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#2 2016-01-13 13:04:01

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: how to solve this?

Hi;

There is an algebraic solution and it yields


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#3 2016-01-13 14:59:49

NakulG
Member
Registered: 2014-09-02
Posts: 186

Re: how to solve this?

Thanks bobby, but why does the first derivative method work here and not in the following sum? (7x-2)^(1/3)+(7x+5)^(1/3)=3.

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#4 2016-01-13 17:06:28

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: how to solve this?

First, do you see the algebraic way?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#5 2016-01-14 02:27:52

NakulG
Member
Registered: 2014-09-02
Posts: 186

Re: how to solve this?

can you help me with the algebraic way?

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#6 2016-01-14 07:14:34

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: how to solve this?

3(x^2+y^2)+2xy=88

Since at a root the equation crosses the x axis that means y = 0. So set y = 0 and you get

3x^2 = 88

Can you solve that for x or do you need some help?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#7 2016-01-14 15:42:10

NakulG
Member
Registered: 2014-09-02
Posts: 186

Re: how to solve this?

Ok so x is +/- 2*((22/3)^(1/2)).
How do we know that it crosses the x axis?
Is this the equation of an ellipse?

Last edited by NakulG (2016-01-14 15:43:12)

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#8 2016-01-14 16:18:04

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: how to solve this?

It pretty much is the definition of a root or a zero of a function.

Wikipedia wrote:

If the function maps real numbers to real numbers, its zeroes are the x-coordinates of the points where its graph meets the x-axis. An alternative name for such a point (x,0) in this context is an x-intercept.

tpDD62g.png

It does look like an ellipse, the red points are the roots.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#9 2016-01-15 00:18:23

NakulG
Member
Registered: 2014-09-02
Posts: 186

Re: how to solve this?

What would be the equation if the ellipse is not cutting any axis?

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#10 2016-01-15 00:23:08

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: how to solve this?

There should be an infinite number of such ellipses. The roots of the equation would then be complex numbers.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#11 2016-01-15 00:24:42

NakulG
Member
Registered: 2014-09-02
Posts: 186

Re: how to solve this?

Ok, can you point me to some online / resource where I can read and practice more on the conic section.

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#12 2016-01-15 00:31:56

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: how to solve this?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#13 2016-01-15 02:20:59

NakulG
Member
Registered: 2014-09-02
Posts: 186

Re: how to solve this?

Thanks, I will go thru these.
In the question that I had mentioned, what is the significance of the xy term in the equation? Can you suggest.

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#14 2016-01-15 04:37:10

NakulG
Member
Registered: 2014-09-02
Posts: 186

Re: how to solve this?

The significance of the xy term is that it tells about the rotation of the figure (ellipse), in this case as the xy is not equal to zero it is (the ellipse) is not parallel to either axis,  x or and y.

Last edited by NakulG (2016-01-15 04:37:50)

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#15 2016-01-15 10:21:08

Nehushtan
Member
Registered: 2013-03-09
Posts: 912
Website

Re: how to solve this?

The equation

represents an ellipse tilted at an angle of 45° to the coordinate axes. The xy term can be eliminated by making the substitution

and working in the uv-plane.

NOTE that for this particular problem you don't need to make this substitution because you can simply put y = 0.

Last edited by Nehushtan (2016-01-16 19:47:04)


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#16 2016-01-15 22:53:09

NakulG
Member
Registered: 2014-09-02
Posts: 186

Re: how to solve this?

This is a good resource for rotation of axis in conic section ... http://math.sci.ccny.cuny.edu/document/show/2685

Last edited by NakulG (2016-01-15 22:56:06)

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