Discussion about math, puzzles, games and fun. Useful symbols: ÷ × ½ √ ∞ ≠ ≤ ≥ ≈ ⇒ ± ∈ Δ θ ∴ ∑ ∫ π -¹ ² ³ °

You are not logged in.

- Topics: Active | Unanswered

Pages: **1**

**Olinguito****Member**- Registered: 2014-08-12
- Posts: 649

This is a chess problem from *The Illustrated London News*, a 19th-century publication. According to the author it is possible for white to mate in three moves but I can't find a solution.

The best I can do is I analysed the problem at http://www.chesslab.com/PositionSearch.html but it couldn't find a mate-in-three either; however it did find an

Can anyone find a mate in three, if there is one? Phrontister?

*Last edited by Olinguito (2015-03-23 21:13:01)*

*Bassaricyon neblina*

Offline

**SteveB****Member**- Registered: 2013-03-07
- Posts: 595

I couldn't have solved it myself, but my chess computer can mate in 3 against any defence.

It gives the main line as:

1. Qb5 d1-Q

2. Nxb3 axb3

3. Qd5+ (checkmate)

*Last edited by SteveB (2015-03-23 00:03:17)*

Offline

**Olinguito****Member**- Registered: 2014-08-12
- Posts: 649

Oh, I didn't see that. Thanks, SteveB.

*Bassaricyon neblina*

Offline

**anonimnystefy****Real Member**- From: Harlan's World
- Registered: 2011-05-23
- Posts: 16,039

What if black goes Tc5 on the first move?

Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most. ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

Offline

What is T?

'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'

'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'

I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

Offline

**SteveB****Member**- Registered: 2013-03-07
- Posts: 595

If you mean T to mean the rook takes c5 then:

1. Qb5 Rxc5

2. Qd7+ Kxe5

3. Ng4+ (checkmate)

Or if you mean the knight takes c5 then:

1. Qb5 Nxc5

2. Ng4 c1=Q

3. e3+ (checkmate)

*Last edited by SteveB (2015-03-23 03:14:20)*

Offline

**anonimnystefy****Real Member**- From: Harlan's World
- Registered: 2011-05-23
- Posts: 16,039

Why wouldn't the king go to c4 in the second move in the first case?

Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most. ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

Offline

**SteveB****Member**- Registered: 2013-03-07
- Posts: 595

That variation results in Qxa4+

as in:

1. Qb5 Rxc5

2. Qd7+ Kc4

3. Qxa4+ (checkmate)

Offline

**anonimnystefy****Real Member**- From: Harlan's World
- Registered: 2011-05-23
- Posts: 16,039

So, all the variations end up with a mate?

Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most. ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

Offline

**Olinguito****Member**- Registered: 2014-08-12
- Posts: 649

This is a much more interesting puzzle than I thought. If indeed all variations end with mate in three, it must have taken a super genius brain to work them out, given there were no computers in the 19th century. I can see why it won first prize.

*Last edited by Olinguito (2015-03-23 05:01:31)*

*Bassaricyon neblina*

Offline

**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 4,613

1. Nxb3+ Kd5

2. Nxd2+ Rc4

3. Bxc4#

In this variation Black's king is forced by two discovered checks to move to safety himself because White's checking pieces (first the queen, then the bishop) cannot be captured and Black has no blocking pieces with which to shield the king from them.

Other than the above, the Black king's only move option is on his first move: ie, Kc4...but that leads to mate-in-2 with Nxd2#.

"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

Offline

**anonimnystefy****Real Member**- From: Harlan's World
- Registered: 2011-05-23
- Posts: 16,039

Um, phro, I don't think the black king can go to d5.

Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most. ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

Offline

**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 4,613

Oops! Thanks, stefy. I'd placed White's Nf6 on Ng6. >{blush,grumble}<

Yes, Black can't prolong the game beyond mate-in-3 with White = 1. Qb5 (as per SteveB). I tried all possible options.

*Last edited by phrontister (2015-03-23 16:47:39)*

"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

Offline

anonimnystefy wrote:

So, all the variations end up with a mate?

There are also many ways to iterate the game infinitely

'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'

'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'

I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

Offline

**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 4,613

There are also many ways to iterate the game infinitely

Sorry, Agnishom, but I don't know what you mean by that.

"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

Offline

1. Rh1 Rf8

2. Rh3 Rd8

3. Rh1 Rf8

4. Rh3 Rd8

.

.

'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'

'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'

I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

Offline

**anonimnystefy****Real Member**- From: Harlan's World
- Registered: 2011-05-23
- Posts: 16,039

None of those is an optimal move, so it would never happen.

Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most. ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

Offline

**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 4,613

Agnishom wrote:

1. Rh1 Rf8

2. Rh3 Rd8

3. Rh1 Rf8

4. Rh3 Rd8

.

.

Black would be very pleased indeed if White went 5. Rh1!

Agnishom wrote:

There are also many ways to iterate the game infinitely

'Infinitely' is not possible these days under FIDE Laws of Chess.

*Last edited by phrontister (2015-03-25 01:07:50)*

Offline

**applejuicefool****Member**- Registered: 2015-09-19
- Posts: 3

What about:

1. Nd3+(discovered) Kc4 (forced)

2. Bxb3+ a4xb3 (forced)

3. Qb4++

I just did this looking at the diagram, so I might have missed something...

*Last edited by applejuicefool (2015-09-19 15:56:11)*

Offline

**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 4,613

Hi applejuicefool;

1. Nd3+(discovered) Kc4 (forced)

Kc4 isn't forced, as Black has an alternative with Rc5 to block White's queen. That leads to mate in four.

Offline

Pages: **1**