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#3976 Re: Help Me ! » Group Theory » 2007-03-15 12:13:49

#4 (There’s a part (a) but there doesn’t seem to be a part (b) for this question.) dunno

I was right. The question involves nothing more than making lists of subsets of

. hmm

#3977 Re: Help Me ! » Need help in trigonometry » 2007-03-15 11:26:23

[EDIT: No, I got it wrong. Forget what I said previously.]

Anyway …

I suspect that the analytical proof would make use of the following useful result:

#3978 Re: Dark Discussions at Cafe Infinity » Snipping » 2007-03-15 11:05:33

This was the thread: http://www.mathsisfun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=6250

MathsIsFun “snipped” your post because it appeared to have been copied from the website that justlookingforthemoment linked to. He felt that it was possible copyright violation, which is illegal.

If you have the author’s permission to copy the material (or if you are the author), you should state it clearly and let everyone know. Otherwise you should just provide a link to the website and not copy material directly (and illegally). smile

#3979 Re: Help Me ! » Group Theory » 2007-03-15 10:04:45

Ricky wrote:

If a^m = e, then it must be that the order of <a> divides m.  This is fairly easily provable, but typically most will let you just state it as fact as it is a very common theorem.  Since the order of <a> divides m, and m < mn, it must be that the order of <a> is less than mn, i.e. the size of the group.

If a[sup]m[/sup] = e, it is enough to know that the order of <a> is less than or equal to m. That is enough to answer this particular question. wink

(And of course since a is not the identity, the order of <a> must be greater than 1.)

#3980 Re: Help Me ! » Group Theory » 2007-03-15 09:55:35

#4 looks easy; it might just involve a tedious listing out of subgroups. I’ll do #7 first as that looks more interesting. cool

#7

#3981 Re: Help Me ! » Group Theory » 2007-03-15 08:57:20

#3.

EDIT: Making proof a bit simpler …

I’ll work on #4 and #7 later. smile

#3982 Re: Help Me ! » pythagorean triplet » 2007-03-15 08:19:40

14[sup]2[/sup] + 48[sup]2[/sup] = 50[sup]2[/sup]

#3984 Re: Help Me ! » perfect squares » 2007-03-15 05:17:17

Sorry, I missed the second part of the question.

It’s not very clearly worded. Could you rephrase the second part of the question? neutral

#3985 Re: Help Me ! » hhhhhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeelllppppp!!!! » 2007-03-15 04:48:21

For the first part

soha wrote:

find the smallest number by which the given number must be divided so that the quotient is a perfect square.

it depends on the number. If the number is a perfect square, you divide by 1; if the number has no repeated factors, divide the number by itself (so the quotient is 1 = 1²). If the number is not a perfect square and has repeated factors, pair off all the repeated factors and divide it by the remaining (non-repeated) factors. (For example, for 96 = (2×2)×(2×2)×2×3, divide it by 2×3 = 6.)

#3986 Re: Help Me ! » perfect squares » 2007-03-15 04:31:25

I take it you’re not allowed to use a calculator?

Well, one way you can do it with “working” is to recognize that 35² = 1225 and 70² = 4900. Then

(i) 34² = (35 − 1)² = 35² − 2·35 + 1² = 1225 − 70 + 1 = 1156

(ii) 69² = (70 − 1)² = 70² − 2·70 + 1² = 4900 − 140 + 1 = 4761

Alternatively, if you are not familiar with 35² = 1225, you should know that 30² = 900; then use 34² = (30 + 4)² as above.

#3987 Re: Introductions » Introducing myself » 2007-03-15 04:22:01

Oh, I forgot. I’ve done a course on Mandarin too, so I know a bit of Chinese as well. lol

However I’m more interested in learning things all by myself; that’s why I’m much more interested in the languages I listed above – because I have learnt / am learning them on my own. wink

#3988 Re: Introductions » Introducing myself » 2007-03-15 04:10:58

Wow, I wonder why I haven’t seen this thread for a while!

To those whom I haven’t thanked for welcoming me in this thread: a big THANK YOU to all for your nice welcome! wave

Well, as you know, I’m interested in mathematics. big_smile My other big interest is learning languages. I’m well grounded in French, Italian, Spanish, German, Swedish, Norwegian and Finnish, and I’m also very keen on learning Portuguese, Dutch, Danish and Icelandic. up

In general, I’m interested in learning and acquiring knowledge of all sorts. My other interests include science (physics/chemistry), geography, biology, computers, history, philosophy, literature, art, music and sports. smile

#3989 Re: Help Me ! » Strange Natural Number Pair » 2007-03-14 20:41:22

You’re welcome. smile

Yeah, proofs of even simple results can sometimes be a bit a messy. hmm

Two proofs are given on the Wikipedia page. The first proof looks short and tidy, but I have doubts about its validity. It uses the result that if p and q are coprime (in other words their highest common factor is 1) and prps (mod q), then the p can be cancelled from both sides, leaving rs (mod q). This is equivalent to saying that if q divides pk and q and p are coprime, then q divides k. But this is a result which may possibly have to be proved using Bézout’s identity – which is what is to be proved!! eek I mean, there may be more than one way of proving the last result, but I can only do it using Bézout’s identity. If there’s no other way, then the proof would be totally circular. faint

#3990 Re: Puzzles and Games » Jane’s puzzles » 2007-03-14 20:12:55

pi man wrote:

Sorry pi man, I missed your reply earlier.

Yes, you’ve got it. up

#3992 Re: Help Me ! » Check my proof guys » 2007-03-14 19:44:25

Stanley_Marsh wrote:

Oh ,yeah , If I just prove

for
there is always an odd k that makes it be divided by 5 , will that work?

It’s not k we want to find, it’s a[sub]n+1[/sub] we want to find. k is already determined by the fact that our n-digit number is equal to 5[sup]n[/sup]k.
­

#3993 Re: Help Me ! » Check my proof guys » 2007-03-14 19:40:11

Mathsy, you’re right. smile I hadn’t thought of that before.

Okay, Stanley needs to show that we can always find a ∈ {1,3,5,7,9} such that

If k is divisible by 5, simply take a = 5 and the job is done.

Otherwise, k must be odd (as Stanley has pointed out) and so k ≡ 1, 3, 7 or 9 (mod 5). Therefore 10−k also ≡ 1, 3, 7 or 9 (mod 5).

Now {1,3,7,9} is the set of all the nonzero elements in

. Since 2[sup]n[/sup] is coprime with 5, multiplying all the nonzero elements by 2[sup]n[/sup] yields a permutation of those elements. i.e.

This means that given any odd k not divisible by 5, we can always find a ∈ {1,3,7,9} such that 2[sup]n[/sup]a ≡ 10−k (mod 5). QED.

In summary:
(i) If 5 divides k, take a = 5.
(ii) Otherwise, k ≡ 1, 3, 7 or 9 (mod 5). Then 10−k also ≡ 1, 3, 7 or 9 (mod 5), so pick a ∈ {1,3,7,9} such that 2[sup]n[/sup]a ≡ 10−k (mod 5).

And of course one shouldn’t forget to show that the inductive hypothesis is true for n=1. I normally do this first thing in an inductive proof so I don’t forget later. wink

#3996 Re: Puzzles and Games » Jane’s puzzles » 2007-03-14 12:39:38

#4. Five girls of different ages entered a music competition, playing pieces by different composers on different instruments (each piece being arranged for each girl’s instrument). From the clues below, can you work out which girl played which instrument, which composer’s piece was arranged for which which girl to play, how old each girl was and what position each girl achieved in the competition, and then answer the question below?

(1) The average age of the five girls was 17. The youngest girl was 13 while the 20-year-old Emma was the oldest.

(2) Amelia, who came first, was older than the girl who played the clarinet, but younger than the girl who played a piece by Schubert, who was not placed third or fifth.

(3) Harriet was not the girl who played a piece by Brahms on the piano, who finished above Isabella but did not win the competition.

(4) Becky chose to play something by Haydn, but she was not the 15-year-old girl who performed on the cello; the latter did not play a piece by Beethoven.

(5) The girl who displayed her talents with a piece by Mozart achieved fourth place, but the violin was not the instrument on which the 18-year-old girl showed off her musical ability.

The question is: Who played the flute? roll

#3997 Re: Puzzles and Games » Jane’s puzzles » 2007-03-14 12:04:26

Bingo! You got it at last. big_smile

lightning dropped a great big hint with his wild guess, didn’t he? rolleyes

My next puzzle will be a logic one … watch this space. wink

#3998 Re: Maths Is Fun - Suggestions and Comments » Forum Down 8 Feb 07 » 2007-03-14 11:57:30

I happened to have gone out to do my shopping. neutral

When I came home and tried to log in, I got the SQL-error message. I kept refreshing the page; then, about 20 minutes later, the forum was finally back up.

I don’t know how long it had been down for; for me, I was only unable to access it for about 20 minutes.

#3999 Re: Help Me ! » Check my proof guys » 2007-03-14 09:41:11

There’s a tricky problem here unfortunately.

In the inductive case, you assume that for some positive integer n, there is an n-digit number a[sub]n[/sub]…a[sub]1[/sub] divisible by 5[sup]n[/sup]. No problem with that. But then you have to construct an n+1 digit number b[sub]n+1[/sub]b[sub]n[/sub]…b[sub]1[/sub] that is divisible by 5[sup]n+1[/sup].

The problem with this is that the b[sub]i[/sub] may not be the same set of numbers as the a[sub]i[/sub]. eek

One thing that you can be sure of is that for n ≥ 2, the last two digits must be 75. Also (for n ≥ 2) if the number is equal to 5[sup]n[/sup]k, then k = 4r − 1 for some positive integer r. I’m afraid that’s all the progress I’ve made so far. dunno

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