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Assuming you mean the International Mathematics Olympiad, obviously you should start of by learning the material for it, which is algebra II, combinatorics, number theory and precalculus (elementary functions). You can use calculus on them, but they are designed to be able to be solved without using calculus. After that, i suggest you do as many challenging problems as you can find. That's basically what I did, and now I am in a position to solve most IMO problems with ease. Just remember that knowing the prerequisite material is not enough - you need to have problem solving skills, creativity and ingenuity - all of which comes by solving difficult problems.
That sounds impressive that you can do most of them with ease. Did you ever do them before going to college/university?
If so how did you get so good? I checked some out and I'm lost with where to start lol. I'll leave them out for a long time. I'm going to go through the school curriculum, then some harder books and AMC questions, then eventually try them.
ShivamS wrote:Tell that lady to first know what she is talking about. Now, if she had said "high school math is just knowing which formulas to use", I would agree with her.
I wouldn't agree with her even then.
Considering the problem, I note that it is 17(b). Further the solution makes use of something not indicated anywhere in the problem itself, namely this "7.5" term. These two bits of information, and some peculiarity in the wording points to problem 17(a) providing additional information we did not have for solving this problem.
bobbym is correct that the problem we saw has many other solutions. but I strongly suspect that had we been given the information in problem 17(a), it no longer would, and the solution there would make sense.
You we're right. I need to read more carefully before I start acting like two part questions are standalone ones.
Hi;
When we began programming computers to be intelligent we started with things that were even dumber than Justin Bieber, dumber than Rihanna. Expert systems were developed by condensing the rules of many disciplines and programmed in. The result in 90% of the cases the expert system out performed the human expert. This was all known by the late 70's. It turned out that the things humans think require intelligence such as medical diagnosis, chemistry, mathematics and chess to name a few required little! Computers could do all of those things equal to or superior to man. In other words things that "experts" do can be reduced to an algorithm. Reduced to a flowchart or a recipe.You would find it hard to believe if you do not already know, what computers find hard!
The computer had the rules and algorithms preprogrammed into it. If you give a computer a rigid well defined task it can out perform humans. Even those tasks that seem complicated are just computers following lots of simple rules. Virtually everything peice of human knowledge should be easy to learn because they're based on lots of simple concepts stacked on top of each other.
Now the computer can follow a lot of simple rules alone but it needs those programmed into it. The computer doesn't reason itself. It wont come up with mathematical proofs based on the algorithms in it. Unless we define how to find proofs and give the computer that code then it wont do it. If we could define what consciousness is and come up with an alorithm for it then maybe computers would become better than us at everything. Maybe we are but biological machines executing code ourselves.
I watched a video on youtube where someone made a computer do something that kinda mimicked intelligence. If they figure out a way to make AI the same as human consciousness then they'll be doing all the work from now on.
A lady yesterday told me that math is just knowing which formulas to use. Now imagine a student had that education and belief,
Do not get mad and I know there will be much cyber guava thrown at me by the purists but I have never seen anything that humans are capable of doing well that did not come down to knowing a couple of dozen to several hundred rules.
Can you remember all those rules and apply them correctly? The problem is it doesn't make you any good at mathematics. You'll look at the rules and they'll be devoid of any meaning to you. You just follow them as a means to an end. When a rule doesn't work you'll have no idea what to do. Learning formulas wont help much when you need to figure out relationships and patterns to solve problems.
In simple terms.... Justin Beiber can learn the algorithm to solve a rubiks cube but he would never figure out howw to solve a 4 or 5 sided one just by being able to follow the procedure.
I personally have bad memory and remember concepts way better than rules. I forget meaningless information. Hey I can go to the kitchen and just get 6 apples. Hey I can split these into 3 and 3, 1 and 5, 2 and 4. Hey it doesn't matter which way I put them together you always get 6 back. "Commutative law," If I split them into equal parts I get 2 groups of 3 or 3 groups of 2 or 1 group of 6 originally. Hey those are factors and what I just did is what they call division. - much more intuitive no?...
I sometimes think it is done intentionally. Many questions are oversimplified which makes them plain wrong and hard to follow for the rational person. I easily find fault and have difficulty understanding some questions. I feel like it's conditioning. The students thought process when seeing a question becomes "if questioin = a : use b formula, else: end program." Then anything outside of that people will have no idea what to do. A lady yesterday told me that math is just knowing which formulas to use. Now imagine a student had that education and belief, and actually wanted to pursue math at university.
Hi;
Yes, you could. I meant the top of page: "Give both possible pairs of answers."
Should be, "give one possible pair of answers."
But maybe that is nitpicking.
No I agree with you. Lots of questions in the school curriculum over here try to pigeonhole you. They ask closed questions to open answers, and ask open questions but only want a selection of answers. Both implies there are only 2 possible.
Because it acts as if those are the correct answers! They are not. They are 2 of the correct answers but what about the gazillions of others?
but couldn't you just substitute in different values where 7.5 is?
The thing about math is there really isn't any easy problems. You can only tell how hard a problem is when you start to work on it. It is an illusion to think that you will ever know everything even about a problem you can solve. For instance, you solve a problem and you are happy with your solution until someone comes up and shows you a better one and points out everything you missed. Happen to you yet? Do not worry, it will.
This actually happened to me today. I used a verbose procedure to come to a solution. Then I saw there was a much simpler procedure that only involved a few steps. It was the same answer though. I don't really understand what you're saying yet though since I'm only doing the basics.
That is a very bad solution in my opinion.
Why do you think it's bad?
If Physics doesn't give me a good enough mathematical background then there's no way I'm doing it as a single subject. I want to actually be able to understand the millenium prize problems.
Hi PatternMan;
Who gave you that solution?
The question was an A* question from an exam paper for 16 year olds. I got a spreadsheet with the solutions to the problems. That is the solution they gave that would yeild full marks.
For the two number,
the product is double the sum.
Work out the number I could be thinking of.
Give both possible pairs of answers.
I don't really fully understand it myselv but this is the solution I was given.
x(x+7.5) = 2(x+x+7.5)
x^2 + 7.5x = 2(2x +7.5)
x^2 + 7.5x = 4x + 15
x^2 + 3.5x - 15 = 0
2x^2 + 7x - 30 = 0
(2x - 5) (x + b) = 0
2x -5 = 0 or x + b = 0
x = 5/2, x = -b
2.5+7.5 = 10, -6 + 7.5= 1.5
answer 2.5 and 10
or
-6 and 1.5
Yes.
Bob
Gracias. I should have been able to get this one but I wasn't sure what the coefficient was for 4xc & -dx
xD You guys make me feel stupid lol. I thought of 0 0 but thought they wouldn't accept it because it doesn't look like twice the amount but there is no amount so twice nothing is nothing or whatever. I am just used to avoiding operations using 0.
There was a question asking me to find at least one pair of numbers that have a product which is twice their sum? I had no idea how to do it. I was using trial and error but gave up after 5 minutes. I wrote this.
xy = 2(x+y)
xy
------ = 2 but this is only to check if the values work and doesn't really help me figure out which numbers I need.
(x+y)
c^2 = 16. - 4, or 4
4c = -d
when c = 4
4(4), -d = 16, d = -16
when c = -4, d = 16
Do you learn definitions, proofs, do problems etc?
Problems, problems and more problems.
Doing easy problems only seems to help for a little bit. It just helps you get the procedure down. After that you literally repeat the procedure to solve the problem or use another procedure you know that works. Other than that only doing more difficult problems help me to get better because I think of steps to problem solve and refine my understanding of the rules.
What are the methods you use to learn mathematics? Do you learn definitions, proofs, do problems etc? I just want some tips. I wonder if there's anything I can do to improve my learning or speed it up.
caveat: physics, engineering and computer science are very different.
All require a significant amount of mathematics though.
Here is an identity
c and d are integers.
work out all possible pairs of values of (c) and (d). You must show your working.
(3x + c)(x + c) ≡ 3x^2 - dx + 16
bobbym wrote:Check out the blunder I made in that trigonometry thread. Know what I did, I screamed, cried, kicked a few boxes, cursed at some people, held my head in bucket of cold water for 30 seconds and now I am back. Reinvested, and ready to blunder again.
With that remark, I know you are true mathematician!
PatternMan -
IQ tests are a very limited measure of intelligence. True intelligence has many aspects and people tend to be better in some aspects than in others. Yet IQ is a single number. It cannot adequately measure this. That Feynmann got 125 on an intelligence test is a indictment of the test rather than of him. And intelligence itself is not a great predicter of success in any field, even mathematics. I have met mathematicians that I can say with good certainty are less intelligent than I am. Yet they are practicing mathematicians with good accomplishments, whereas beyond my dissertation, I have never accomplished anything in the field.
The question of how far you want to go and in which direction is of course up to you. Don't pursue a degree in anything unless you feel a real desire to do it. But also, don't let ideas about "job availability" steer you away from doing what you love, either. I cannot speak for other professions, but there are good jobs available for those proficient in mathematics, physics, or engineering. Even though my job is engineering, my first boss told me that he preferred to hire those with mathematics or physics backgrounds because engineers generally wanted to do design work, and thus were less likely to stay in weight engineering. Mathematics is applicable everywhere, and those who hire mathematicians for various jobs often find them more valuable than those specifically educated for the job, because we are trained to think logically about issues in general, and therefore spot possibilities that those trained for the job never dreamed of. That was certainly the case for me. (The reasons I couldn't find any job upon graduating had far more to do with me than with a lack of jobs.)
More generally, doctorates in any field can be useful. About a year or two after starting this job, I was sent a survey. Some college student was studying the usefulness of doctorates to business. I don't know what the outcome of that was, but what impressed me was the list of doctorates it was sent to. Though my company has thousands of salaried employees, and I had met only a small number of them, I recognized almost every name on the list. Most of them I knew as being the crucial people in their particular groups. Doctorates were evidently well worth the hire for my company.
Yes I'm not sure whether I want to go into research (math or physics), something computer science related, or engineering so a joint math + physics major would probably be best for me. I should just see what I enjoy first. I'll be studying high school maths and physics and depending on how I like it I might do a single rather than joint major.
1) = 300 because 45 * 4 - 180 = 60%, 180/60 = 3 = 1%
Hi;
I think the only thing necessary to achieve results is desire. If you keep trying, you will get results.
Winston Churchill wrote:Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
Check out the blunder I made in that trigonometry thread. Know what I did, I screamed, cried, kicked a few boxes, cursed at some people, held my head in bucket of cold water for 30 seconds and now I am back. Reinvested, and ready to blunder again.
xD We're not going to totally agree because I'm a pedantic one. Thank you guys anyway because I just thought of a few good ideas discussing this in this thread and the other one.
I don't even think intelligence is fixed if by intelligence you mean the ability to absorb and apply knowledge. That's how it's defined in the Oxford dictionary anyway. Technically I have been becoming more intelligent over the past few years then. But it has been used to mean a persons capacity to learn, rememember, reason, problem solve, plan, etc. They must mean natural ability.
I believe a certain amount of this is due to genes since their brains may function faster or be able to focus better or what ever advantage genetics is supposed to give you. For example I'm naturally good at spotting patterns but I don't know why. Sometimes most the details fade into the background and I just see one common pattern over and over. I then get flashbacks of various times I have seen it in my life and the element was common to all of them. It can be maddening. Babies seem to be able to pick up any language in what 3 years? The majority of grown adults can't do that. There are savants that can absorb information in seconds and remember, leading them to learn something in short periods.
The advantage thinkers and adults have imo is that they have a larger knowledge base to pull from. They can also assess and review. To illustrate this you could have a person conventionally considered to be intelligent. He would take Chinese classes and might be able to pick it up faster than me if we used those same methods. But having knowledge of a few other things and sense I can outdo the person considered to be more intelligent.
I could just look up the most common Chinese phrases. I could just learn 1 phrase a day and learn the words in it. Also watch some Chinese media. That is 365 words a year. Even if I only retained 1/3 of that I could probably get by in that country. I would already have some template sentences I could use and just modify a few words in them. Maybe without even trying you would have picked up the grammar because you're using prepackaged grammar structures anyway.
So I think there a lot of factors that contribute to a person getting results.