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Can anyone explain Devante's post #7? He says
OK, here's the "headache" formula I wrote about in the last post...
where, as an abbreviation
The GraphCalc program shows me that
which I don't think I could have found for myself, and makes the expression above the line a lot easier!
Ok, so I'm onto my second attempt... the first idea of ignoring the absolute values around the sin and cos when differentiating was WRONG. So, I did it again, using the following:
1) the top-most item is to use the quotient rule, with cos(a) above the line and (|cos a|^4+...)^0.25 below the line
2) the chain rule is applied with fourth-root being the f and (|cos a|^4+|sin a|^4) being the g in
(fog)' = (f'og)g'
3) the sum rule takes care of |cos a|^4 + |sin a|^4
4) the chain rule takes care of |cos a|^4 where f is to-the-fourth and g is |cos a|, again with (fog)' = (f'og)g'
5) the chain rule takes care of |cos a| where f is absolute and g is cos(a)
4bis) and 5bis) do for |sin a|^4 in the same manner as |cos a|^4
I get a real-headache result, which I may try to LaTeX for you all.
I was pleased when I used Excel to differentiate the c(a) taking Δx as 0.01 radians, then plotting the graph. The graph of d/dx(c(a)) from excel was excitingly the same shape as I got when I put my headache into graphcalc.
Having spent 25yrs in the computer and telecoms industry, I'd say that we don't use binary often, but instead either octal or hex. These are used more in examining file dumps and errors close-up to the computer hardware, especially C or assembler. At this level its seldom needed to get an understanding of the relative size of the value.
Hex needs letters A to F to represent the values 10 to 15. Octal just uses 0 to 7. But you knew this already. All Octal numbers can be [mis-] pronounced as if they were decimal, so 376[octal] is often said three-seven-six. Hex numbers can be more awkward, and 2B53 would commonly be pronounced two-bee-fifty-three. No, no-one I worked with ever cared about the "wrongness" of what they said.
Back to my original post: "Does anyone know of the way to differentiate and integrate the functions?" I can begin to differentiate the function given by Kurre using product, quotient and chain rules, but I will have to nest them and I will need a BIG piece of paper to deal with all the 'recursion' or 'nesting' of pieces in each other.
I will start with quotient rule: [u/v]' = (u'v - uv') / v^2
where u = cos(a) and v = (cos^n(a) + sin^n(a))^(1/4)
(I'm aware of ditching the unsigned or absolute, but I'm doing that for simplicity, and will limit my results to the a from 0 to pi/2)
If anyone gets there with a differential then I'd be interested to see it. I suspect that a few trig simplifications which I don't know may result in a much tidier formula.
Go on, you know you want to...
My thanks to Bossk171, for pointing out the program graphcalc. This is new to me, but I love it and have started using it as well as MS Excel to draw graphs of the functions.
I agree, having seen some more of the site now, that my post might have been better in Euler's Avenue or Cafe Infinity. However, I'm still a novice (joined Christmas day 2008) so I trust I'm excused. If a moderator wishes to move all this to another part of the site, fine by me.
My thanks too to Kurre for his formula c(a) = cos(a) / ((abs(cos(a))^n + abs(sin(a))^n) ^ (1/n)). I found the explanation easier this time. It's cool, that s(a) uses the same formula but has sin(a) above the line, which I guessed for myself. I could flatter myself and call it maths intuition. Cool also that c(a) for n=4 can be expressed in terms of sin and cos re-using n=2.
Between the two of you I now have the formulae above in graphcalc drawing the lines by parametric and also by Euclidian versions - and it pleases me that they look just the same (at least above the x-axis)
By the use of chain rule dy/dx = dy/dh . dh/dx and also by writing
y = sqrt (1 - x^2)
I got
dy/dx = (-x) / sqrt(1-x^2)
which satisfied the trig rules, ie I had found an equivalent of -cot(alpha).
By the chain rule on x^4+y^4=1 I had
y=sqrt(sqrt(1 - x^4))
which differentiated to
dy/dx = (-4 x^3) / sqrt(sqrt((1 - x^4) ^3))
and seems to give a gradient on the tanget on my lines when I plot on Excel.
Looking at wikipedia (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trig_functions) I see what remember,
sin x = x - x^3/3! + x^5/5! - ...
and I have wondered if there can be a similar infinite series for the X^4 form I've considered.
I looked at the Co-tangent observations made by Kurre (above) but couldn't follow his (or, her) step from
(y*CotA)^n+y^n=1
to
s^n(A)=y=1/(Cot^nA+1)
So thanks for the reply but sorry I didn't "get" it.
So the formula above with n=2 generates a circle on the x,y plane, and can be demonstrated by use of Pythagoras' theorm. With n=1 it makes a straight line. But what happens when n=3 or n=4?
I used Excel to draw a graph of them. (I re-arranged the formula to be y = (1-x^n)^(1/n), then set x to values from 0.00 to 1.00 by 0.01 in column A, and computed y in column B, then asked the graph wizard to draw the B column.)
It's quite clear as n increases the line produced moves closer to the box formed by the lines x=1 and y=1.
Does anyone know of the way to differentiate and integrate the functions? Are there functions like sine and cosine which exist for the case n=2?
Where n=2 we get square roots which cause the arc to reflect about the x and y axes to make a full circle. Where n=3 does this make sense, or do we get lots of possible answers?
When I had (as a boy) a toy railway set (i.e., Hornby now in the UK) I was told that the sudden entry to a bend from straight to a fixed radius was not used on real, full-size railways (and probably is uncommon on UK highways now I think about it) so do any of the curves I generate have uses in road building?
When Christmas is over I will have less time, but for now the mind is rested and can spare some effort for this sort of amusement. javascript:insert_text('', '');
Your educative comments welcome. And please be gentle, this is my first real post here.
Hello from another new member...
English white male, age 50
Living near Reading, Berks, England
Maths education: as far as UK 'A' level, which is at age 18
Hobbies: flute, computers
Work: electrician