Discussion about math, puzzles, games and fun. Useful symbols: ÷ × ½ √ ∞ ≠ ≤ ≥ ≈ ⇒ ± ∈ Δ θ ∴ ∑ ∫ π -¹ ² ³ °

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 86,728

Neither just two old men.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.**

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**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 3,848

Hi Bobby,

Thanks for posting the puzzle - I really enjoyed the challenge.

It kept me busy for longer than it should because of my fumbling around, but if I'd got it right first pop I would have missed out on debugging it, which was also quite enjoyable. It appears, though, that the frog enjoyed debugging even more that I did...but at least I'm still alive to tell the tale!

Of course, I may not be using that same adjective to describe my feelings about the puzzle if I were up to my 100th wrong answer!

*Last edited by phrontister (2014-03-25 22:47:21)*

"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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I did a similar problem at Brilliant around 7-8 months ago.

'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'

'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'

'Humanity is still kept intact. It remains within.' -Alokananda

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 86,728

Hi phrontister;

It does not matter how long it took just as long as we got that frog.

Agnishom wrote:

I did a similar problem at Brilliant around 7-8 months ago.

Yes, but mine was much better because there were frogs.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.**

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**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 3,848

The intact-but-soon-to-be-blown-to-smithereens frog, who, it would seem from this photo of the frog in action, is not too far from his exit out of the land of the living...

"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 86,728

Hmmm, he does look ready to explode.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.**

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**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 3,848

Here is BASIC code for a Josephus simulation I found on the net that I adapted for this puzzle:

It runs in my LibertyBASIC.

*Last edited by phrontister (2014-03-30 01:14:17)*

"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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**ShivamS****Member**- Registered: 2011-02-07
- Posts: 3,534

You use LibertyBASIC too? I used JustBASIC but then upgraded to it.

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Why do you need that?

'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'

'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'

'Humanity is still kept intact. It remains within.' -Alokananda

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**ShivamS****Member**- Registered: 2011-02-07
- Posts: 3,534

Well, it's a good language for working with hardware...

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**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 3,848

BASIC is the first and only programming language I've learnt...mainly on an old hand-held Sharp PC1500A Pocket Computer. Later I got the free JustBASIC software for my PC, liked it and then upgraded to the paid-for LibertyBASIC version, which I like to use for some puzzles here on MIF and others I find elsewhere from time to time.

One day I might try something else, like Python, which I downloaded and installed but never got even mildly serious about starting to learn it (not enough hours in a day).

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 86,728

Hi phrontister;

What about M, you program in that too.

Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?

Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

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**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 3,848

True, but I hadn't considered M as a programming language.

Although I had thought about using M I let that pass as I couldn't see past doing a simulation and didn't know how to use M for that. Anyway, I'm happy with the spreadsheet simulation I did in Excel...the visual display helped to quickly iron out the various logic errors I'd made (which I suppose I could have done in M too if I knew it better).

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**ShivamS****Member**- Registered: 2011-02-07
- Posts: 3,534

Bobbym;

Most people don't consider M as a programming language.

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 86,728

Hi;

They are mistaken then. M programming is an art and very difficult to do right. It supports proceduaral, functional and rule based programming.

Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?

Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

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**ShivamS****Member**- Registered: 2011-02-07
- Posts: 3,534

But it's primary use is as a computational package/CAS, so many people fall under the assumption that it's not a full-fledged programming language (even though it's more powerful then most languages which support only procedural programming).

phrontister, have you tried Run BASIC? It's a dialect of BASIC created by Carl Grundel (the creator of Just and Liberty BASIC) which allows you to develop web pages.

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 86,728

Hi ShivamS;

Mathematics is a language too. While other programming languages only have a smattering of math capabilities, M has tons of it. The other languages give programmers the false idea that math is separate from programming. After all, where is the math in a for next loop? M puts you back on the right track, they are connected.

Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?

Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

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**anonimnystefy****Real Member**- From: The Foundation
- Registered: 2011-05-23
- Posts: 15,526

Hi bobbym

Haven't checked the answers on previous pages yet, but I have come up with some sort of

.Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most. ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

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That is wrong, as far as I know. (unless you are using some other base than most humans do)

'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'

'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'

'Humanity is still kept intact. It remains within.' -Alokananda

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**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 86,728

Hi anonimnystefy;

Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?

Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

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**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 3,848

Hi ShivamS,

No, I haven't tried Run BASIC. Web-page development isn't something I'm interested in, and really, I program in BASIC only infrequently and always for puzzle solving.

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