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#1 2014-03-14 11:36:52

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,588

Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

New Problem:

A point is created at the origin and labeled O. A prime number p is picked and 2 points are created at (p,0) and (-p,0). The points are labeled B and C. Using OB and OC as the bottoms, two 5 sided regular polygons are created. They are blue in the diagram. The orange area represents the overlap between the two polygons.

What is the value of the Area of polygon OBGHI divided by the area of the orange polygon?

A says) All geometry ended when the big boys like me got into it and converted it into topology. The answer is obviously 5.

B says) That ain't right. Even a bumpkin knows the answer ain't 5.

C says) A sure is fast and accurate too. A, do you train people and what do you charge?

D says) What are we talking about? I got 5.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 so the answer is close to 5 but not 5.

E says) I am not sure about the bumpkin remark but the answer has a radical in it.

A says) E, you would do well to take some lessons from me instead of listening to that bumpkin over there.

A wild brawl ensues and we have no interest in it. The question remains... can you find the answer?

View Image: 2014-03-14_163610.gif

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#2 2014-03-15 04:07:14

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 3,843

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

Hi Bobby,


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#3 2014-03-15 04:21:46

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,588

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

Hi;


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

Online

#4 2014-03-15 04:37:11

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 3,843

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

Hi Bobby,


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#5 2014-03-15 04:42:16

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,588

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

Hi;


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

Online

#6 2014-03-15 04:50:00

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 3,843

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

Hi,

Last edited by phrontister (2014-03-15 04:50:17)


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#7 2014-03-15 04:52:57

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,588

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

Hi;


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

Online

#8 2014-03-15 11:50:39

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 3,843

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

Good morning, Bobby.

View Image: Overlapping pentagons(kite).jpg

Last edited by phrontister (2014-03-15 13:26:16)


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#9 2014-03-15 19:32:19

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,588

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

Hi;


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

Online

#10 2014-03-15 20:00:09

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 3,843

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

No probs. Just don't strain anything...except maybe the tea leaves during a cuppa break.


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#11 2014-03-15 20:44:04

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,588

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

Hi;


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

Online

#12 2014-03-15 21:07:44

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 3,843

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

Hi,


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#13 2014-03-15 21:10:01

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,588

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

Online

#14 2014-03-15 21:24:01

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 3,843

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#15 2014-03-15 21:35:45

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,588

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

Hi;


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

Online

#16 2014-03-16 02:02:20

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 3,843

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

Hi Bobby,


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#17 2014-03-16 02:11:05

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,588

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

Hi;


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

Online

#18 2014-03-16 02:20:45

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 3,843

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

Oooo...nice! Tried it. I didn't know you could do that. smile


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#19 2014-03-16 02:25:25

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,588

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

Which part?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

Online

#20 2014-03-16 02:30:21

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 3,843

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

RootApproximant with FullSimplify, to convert the G result to that nice, brief, accurate answer.

I had tried that with Rationalize in M with G's CAS results but of course only got a fraction.

Last edited by phrontister (2014-03-16 02:32:15)


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#21 2014-03-16 02:32:08

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,588

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

You could have even done this "closed form 4.73606797749979" at Alpha!


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

Online

#22 2014-03-16 02:33:31

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 3,843

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

Sorry...I'm not familiar with the term 'closed form'. I'll try to remember that.


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#23 2014-03-16 02:35:38

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,588

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

It means expressing something in elementary forms. Shorthand for a few simple, common operations like sqrt, +, -, / , *, a power  or a trig term.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

Online

#24 2014-03-16 02:40:24

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 3,843

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

Thanks, I think I understand.

I thought that my M would be able to do all of what Alpha could, but obviously not, seeing that A made that interpretation...which I can't get my M to do.


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#25 2014-03-16 02:45:39

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,588

Re: Bitter Bafflers, the Sequel.

The language they have written for Wolfram is a trade secret. I have emailed them to put it into the future M's but Stephen can be a bit stubborn.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

Online

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