Discussion about math, puzzles, games and fun. Useful symbols: ÷ × ½ √ ∞ ≠ ≤ ≥ ≈ ⇒ ± ∈ Δ θ ∴ ∑ ∫ π -¹ ² ³ °

You are not logged in.

- Topics: Active | Unanswered

**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 4,860

Unless their name was Alexis Lemaire, or they were one of those lightning-fast abacus operators.

It took my code 46 minutes to solve P=101.

N=725387

Prime number range is from 2 to 10981589

The sum of all Pi is a 715-digit number.

!!!

"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

Offline

**bobbym****bumpkin**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 109,606

I thought the champion back then was Dase, whom Gauss used as a human computer. He could multiply two one hundred digit numbers in his head in less than 6 hours!

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**** Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.**

Offline

**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 4,860

I don't know anything about either of those two.

Anyway, here's some info I got from Wikipedia about Alexis Lemaire...and apparently these are current world records:

On the 17th of December 2004 Alexis Lemaire took just 3.625 seconds to find the 13th root of the 100-digit number 3,893,458,979,352,680,277,349,663,255,651,930,553,265,700,608,215,449,817,188,566,054,427,172,046,103,952,232,604,799,107,453,543,533, which is 45,792,573that's all it took for him to read the number, calculate its root, and recount the answer!!!!!!

On the 10th of December 2007, at London's Science Museum, he mentally extracted the 13th root of a random 200-digit number in 70.2 seconds...answer 2,407,899,883,032,220.

"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

Offline

**bobbym****bumpkin**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 109,606

Hmmm, maybe he can only do the 13th root?!

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**** Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.**

Offline

**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 4,860

I believe he simply learnt by heart the 13th roots of all the numbers from 8,192 to 99,999,999,999,999,743,031,952,041,096,987,073,685,867,014,387,525,794,216,027,198,214,444,23

0,686,699,443,818,149,425,746,645,361,334,915,408,153,229,452,410,082,721,678,437,084,921,498,

446,443,909,843,682,848,652,111,039,038,367,836,144,830,722,360,637,598,466,048...probably with the aid of mnemonics composed while tapping to the drum solo in *In A Gadda Da Vida* from 6:23 into the record.

The number (which I can't find on the net) that he would have been given for the 10/12/2007 test to get the answer 2,407,899,883,032,220 must have ended in 13 zeros, which seems rather odd at first! However, considering the terms of the test's Rule 5, the chances of that happening is only about one in 10 (I think), and so was very possible.

Rule 5:

The number whose 13th root is to be calculated should be randomly selected by computer immediately prior to the calculation and should be displayed to the calculator on a computer screen, board, screen or similar. The given number must be the 13th power of a integer number which belongs to the range 2 030 917 620 904 736--2 424 462 017 082 328.

*Last edited by phrontister (2013-04-26 12:00:03)*

"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

Offline

**bobbym****bumpkin**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 109,606

So he was a phony idiot savant. I hate that.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**** Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.**

Offline

**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 4,860

Lemaire was quoted as saying in November 2007:

The first digit is easy and so is the last, but the middle ones are very hard.

Well, in view of what I said in my previous post, the last digit for the 10/12/2007 test would have been *very *easy!

A BBC News article quoted Lemaire in July 2007:

When I think of numbers sometimes I see a movie, sometimes sentences. I can translate the numbers into words. This is very important for me. The art is to convert memory chunks into some kind of structure.

I see images, phrases, actions. Its very tactile, sensitive. I have these associations between places and numbers. Some places are imaginary, I try to vary so I dont confuse the numbers. Its important to memorise. I have to be precise.

*Last edited by phrontister (2013-04-26 12:14:23)*

Offline

**bobbym****bumpkin**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 109,606

I am convinced. When do we go find him and beat the snot out of him.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**** Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.**

Offline

**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 4,860

In umpteen years time, after I've done enough 13th power memory exercises.

Offline

**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 4,860

Have to go to work now...catch you later.

Offline

**bobbym****bumpkin**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 109,606

You are correct about that number he got the 13th root to.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**** Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.**

Offline

**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 4,860

Sorry about that new post I deleted just now, but I got it wrong and replaced it with this one. I hope I was quick enough and that you haven't read it.

This is what I really meant to say:

Did you notice something about the numbers in the range in the first paragraph of post #80?

*Last edited by phrontister (2013-04-26 21:53:30)*

Offline

**bobbym****bumpkin**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 109,606

Hi;

Know I did not. What did I miss?

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**** Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.**

Offline

**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 4,860

The first in the range is the 13th power of the smallest integer greater than 1, and the last in the range is the largest 200-digit 13th power of an integer.

*Last edited by phrontister (2013-04-26 22:03:38)*

Offline

**bobbym****bumpkin**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 109,606

So, he only had to memorize less then 200 numbers?

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**** Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.**

Offline

**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 4,860

Yes. Easily done, for the 13th power of each of the 393,544,396,177,593 numbers in the range 2,030,917,620,904,736 to 24,244,620,17082,328 of the competition.

*Last edited by phrontister (2013-04-26 22:18:53)*

Offline

**bobbym****bumpkin**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 109,606

Sorry, it is late and I am not at all sharp. Were you being sarcastic about him being able to do it?

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**** Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.**

Offline

**Stangerzv****Member**- Registered: 2012-01-30
- Posts: 266

Would they be able to get the 13th root of non-perfect 13th power? Or they simply knows how to calculate integers? Our brains are capable of doing many things wonderful and complex but why bother if you can use calculator or computer:)

Offline

**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 4,860

Hi,

Yes, Bobby, I was. I have a very bad case of that disease, as you've no doubt noticed from my posts. If I'm given an opportunity to lead someone up the garden path to find some red herrings they can eat when they find the fork in the road, I can't resist taking it. But often there's some truth hiding in there somewhere, even if just by accident.

So...I have absolutely no idea how anyone could commit to memory three hundred and ninety-three trillion, five hundred and forty-four billion, three hundred and ninety-six million, one hundred and seventy-seven thousand, five hundred and ninety-three lots of 200-digit numbers, and then dip into their memory bank and pull out the right answer in just 70 seconds!!

Therefore (and I say that reservedly, because, as we've seen with people who have these incredible brain gifts, you can never really know their full capabilities) that wasn't the road he took.

I think the following report from The BBC highlights the difficulty of trying to understand the methods used by people who have these astounding abilities:

Lemaire says: "It is quite difficult. I did a lot of preparation for this. More than four years of work and a lot of training every day. A lot of memorising. I need three things - calculating, memorising and the third on mathematical skills. It is a lot of work and maybe a natural gift."

There is a long-standing fascination with those who can accomplish astounding feats of mental agility. The "ordinary" human wants to know how, but sadly the geniuses and the savants can only offer fragments of insight into how they function, and the scientists who have studied them rarely offer a definitive answer.

Lemaire explains that what he does is about transforming raw numbers into other structures so he can "see" the answer to the problem:

"When I think of numbers sometimes I see a movie, sometimes sentences. I can translate the numbers into words. This is very important for me. The art is to convert memory chunks into some kind of structure.

"I see images, phrases, actions. It's very tactile, sensitive. I have these associations between places and numbers. Some places are imaginary, I try to vary so I don't confuse the numbers. It's important to memorise. I have to be precise."Lemaire's explanation is similar to that of British savant Daniel Tammet. Tammet set the world record for reciting pi at more than 22,000 digits at the museum in 2004.

To him, each number has a distinct colour and appearance, some beautiful, some not, with each complex calculation making up a landscape.

*Last edited by phrontister (2013-04-26 23:20:04)*

Offline

**Bob****Administrator**- Registered: 2010-06-20
- Posts: 10,474

hi Phro,

Please excuse the interruption, but I've sent you a pm. Bob

Children are not defined by school ...........The Fonz

You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him find it within himself..........Galileo Galilei

Sometimes I deliberately make mistakes, just to test you! …………….Bob

Offline

**bobbym****bumpkin**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 109,606

I feel a rant coming on. Nope, I suppressed it. The viewpoint in modern mathematics is so prevalent that numerical work is garbage compared to the ability to juggle axioms that little serious study is done. The feeling is that this ability among others is unimportant even trivial.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**** Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.**

Offline

**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 4,860

In most things you need a sound working knowledge of the basics to progress successfully. That knowledge comes with study and application. Why should maths be any different?

Offline

**bobbym****bumpkin**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 109,606

If I have understood your reply I can only say because mathematicians are a snobby, stuck up lot that only believe their particular specialty is mathematics. They ridicule and even persecute those who are doing something other than their type mathematics.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**** Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.**

Offline

**phrontister****Real Member**- From: The Land of Tomorrow
- Registered: 2009-07-12
- Posts: 4,860

You're not generalising just the teeeensiest, weeeensiest, little bit, are you?

If what you say is true of *all *mathematicians then I'll rip that tag from my forehead to distance myself from them. I don't consider myself to be one, btw - I just enjoy doing number puzzles - but some people who know of my affinity for them (and I haven't told them I only do the easy ones) think I'm a mathematician.

Offline

**bobbym****bumpkin**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 109,606

Heck, I would never call you a mathematician, unless I hated you.

Generalizations are where the money is at. We are no longer allowed to make them even though they are the key to life.

Need to sleep, see you later.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.****If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.**** Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.**

Offline