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**zetafunc.****Guest**

In the back of my mind I want some kind of change and little things happen occasionally that make me not want to move on from rejection yet. F has a twin sister (non-identical) who came up to me today and asked me if my name was ____ (it was). She asked me if I knew F - I said that I did, and she said that she was her sister. Then she just walked away, strangely. No clue what that was about, seemed a bit random. She looks nothing like F either.

I also saw F in the shop today with her friend. As I passed her I said 'hey' and smiled, and she smiled back but I don't think she said anything. It was nice to know that I was acknowledged in some way, and not just completely ignored. Then again, she couldn't have ignored me, as I was standing right in front of her...

I see C tomorrow, but part of me still wants F. Hmm.

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 81,418

So F has a sister? That introduction sure was weird. Maybe she wanted to get a look at you, obviously the sister is talking about you to her.

Looks like you will have to let F make the first move now.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.**

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**zetafunc.****Guest**

But she is so shy, I don't think there will be a first move. Not long to go before she's gone (forever, most likely).

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 81,418

Okay, then ask her again.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.**

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**zetafunc.****Guest**

Ask her what?

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 81,418

If she wants to go out.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.**

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**zetafunc.****Guest**

But I asked her out already and I was rejected (in an implied way)... won't the same thing happen again, just more awkward?

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 81,418

Well that is the point. You already got rejected so what can happen now. I think the general rule is 3 times and your out.

I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.

All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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**zetafunc.****Guest**

I just don't know how to go about doing it this time, last time it was easy, now it is not so easy... here's what happened last time:

---

[F's friend is in class today but F is away for the morning. I decide to strike up a conversation with F's friend.]

Me: "Hey, how are you?"

F's Friend: "Good, you?"

Me: "I'm not bad. Hey, do you know if F is in today?"

F's Friend: "She is, why?"

Me: "Oh, I was just going to ask her out, just wanted to know if she was here or not."

F's Friend: "Oh."

The last hour of the school day, F and her friend are both in class. Bell goes:

Me: "F, could I speak to you in private?"

[F's friend knows what is coming so immediately accepts and waits downstairs.]

Me: "Are you busy this holiday?"

F: "I'm going abroad with some family."

Me: "Oh..."

F: "Why, what was it you wanted to ask me?"

Me: "I was just wondering if you'd like to go for a coffee sometime."

[F smiles and then starts walking downstairs. I walk with her. A bit confused about her lack of verbal response, I try to talk to her again but then she says something before I can speak.]

F: "So, wow, you're doing 20 modules in one year... how?"

Me: "Well, I wanted to, I suppose..." (stupid response)

[F doesn't say anything. I want to keep the conversation going so I ask her about the uni she's going to.]

Me: "Oh, I heard about your offer, congratulations! How did you choose which college to go to?"

F: "They sort of pushed me to apply to _____."

Me: "Ah, I see."

[F then walks up to her friend and then starts talking to her. I'm just left walking behind them for the full stretch of the road until I say "see you later!" to which F sort of just quickly glances at me and smiles, then quickly turns back around again.]

Then, stupid me goes home and e-mails her asking her when she's coming back from her holiday. She doesn't respond. Then after the holidays I apologise to her about sending her the e-mail, and she says "it's fine!".

---

So, yeah, I'm really not sure what to do after this... I predict that if I ask her out again she'll just do the same thing and I'll kept trapped in that deadlock of getting a non-response. What should I change here?

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 81,418

Sounds pretty messy. In for a penny sort of thing.

I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.

All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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**zetafunc.****Guest**

What do you mean?

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 81,418

Well, I think she is torturing you but that never stopped me. Persistence pays off sometimes.

I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.

All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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**zetafunc.****Guest**

So what do you think should be my next move? I have no idea what to do now...

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 81,418

I have no idea, I know what I would do, combinatorics!

Combinatorics is way more rewarding than dating.

My second choice would be to ask again.

I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.

All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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**zetafunc.****Guest**

How do I ask her again, though? Not sure what to do seeing as my first try failed... how should the approach work? Ask to speak in private again?

My statistics course lacks a bit of combinatorics... 75% of it is hypothesis testing.

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 81,418

Try what you did before. As long as you are talking you are doing well. As I said 3 rejections is the usual limit.

I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.

All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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**zetafunc.****Guest**

Should I ask her for a coffee again? I'd really prefer for her to be alone when I ask her this time because she's always hanging around her friend and I doubt her friend would let me ask F out again. Problem is that she is never alone...

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 81,418

You could try barging right in there between them. Why will the friend interfere with you asking?

I think the coffee idea is fine.

I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.

All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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**zetafunc.****Guest**

Barging right between them? They almost literally walk shoulder to shoulder... the reason I don't want to speak to F with her friend around is because F sticks to her friend a lot. Too many times has she just decided to give me a quick response and then go back to her friend again. Without the friend, I can speak to her in a conversation that lasts longer than 10 seconds. I would like at least 1 minute with her...

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 81,418

She sounds busy. Usually though the friend will keep his/her mouth shut during important things like this.

I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.

All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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**zetafunc.****Guest**

But then F keeps talking to her friend and the friend responds. I have thought about telling F's friend about this if I saw her in private (she's easier to get to on her own, still difficult but happens more often) and maybe asking her if she could let us be alone together a bit more so I could talk to her. But I wonder if she would actually let me do that...

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 81,418

Maybe but it is not necessary. Do not complicate this. You have a right to ask.

I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.

All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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**zetafunc.****Guest**

I won't get the chance tomorrow because it's Friday and F isn't in on Friday mornings (usually). I may get the chance to see F's friend on her own though. Do you think me being 17 and her being 18 plays quite a big role? I heard somewhere that psychologically there is a big difference because she's legally an adult and I'm not.

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 81,418

Could be that you are too young for her. But it is only coffee so...

I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.

All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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**zetafunc.****Guest**

I could be. I'm taller than her though. Actually, she isn't 18; I remember her birthday being displayed on the board once. It was June or July '94, so she's only older than me by about 7 months or so I think. Still, we are in different years (I'm Year 12, she's Year 13). She's applied to uni and got all her offers, I haven't applied to any unis because I do that next year. When she is in her first year at uni, I'll still be at school in Year 13.

I don't even drink coffee. At the coffee shop I'd order something else. I've never even been inside a coffee shop, but I'm sure I know how it works... I think. If she rejects me do you think I should still ask for her number?