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#51 2015-05-28 14:23:37

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Nohow

I am already stuck.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#52 2015-05-28 15:20:43

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 4,592

Re: Nohow

Other than accepting a hint, the following brain treatment, mentioned on Science Direct, may be your only hope:

Certain problems are inherently difficult for the normal human mind. Yet paradoxically they can be effortless for those with an unusual mind. We discovered that an atypical protocol for non-invasive brain stimulation enabled the solution of a problem that was previously unsolvable. The majority of studies over the last century find that no participants can solve the nine-dot problem – a fact we confirmed. But with 10 min of right lateralising transcranial direct current stimulation (tDCS), more than 40% of participants did so. Specifically, whereas no participant solved this extremely difficult problem before stimulation or with sham stimulation, 14 out of 33 participants did so with cathodal stimulation of the left anterior temporal lobe together with anodal stimulation of the right anterior temporal lobe. This finding suggests that our stimulation paradigm might be helpful for mitigating cognitive biases or dealing with a broader class of tasks that, although deceptively simple, are nonetheless extremely difficult due to our cognitive makeup.

I never thought that NOHOW was "deceptively simple", and solving it certainly wasn't "effortless", proving what I've always suspected: that I'm not one of "those with an unusual mind".

I just thought of a way I might be able to get the result from the component I solved in M to link to other components. Hopefully that will work, because I didn't want to stop with M so early in the puzzle. Now (I mean later) to work on the code!


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#53 2015-05-28 15:44:27

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Nohow

I would classify you as an unusual mind.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#54 2015-05-28 16:13:30

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 4,592

Re: Nohow

Hmmm...

y3miX9i1sXjwitA0RoXMZg8-s-8jbmctN53ef0aRlwkC4P_6RiFU1EmRKxP6fGs6uHb3KHlnUfTtKx_48fTWnLL4pPMoltGoFEzPSvG6mefxnW2a2htP86w4Bqjr093CU_DS7fh_M_PglFeTmJ1xNBb8Kq_TuEnyYbV10HFMYuVqxI?width=318&height=407&cropmode=none

Vincent Shadow isn't particularly good at sports, but it is Vincent's unusually creative mind that truly separates him from other kids his age.

Well, I'm not even a shadow of that guy...but maybe a negative image of him, given his interests compared to mine.

Last edited by phrontister (2017-02-22 00:22:53)


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#55 2015-05-28 16:25:59

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Nohow

All are architects of fate
working in these walls of time
some with massive deeds and great
some with ornaments of rhyme

Now I did not understand that when they taught me it and I still do not. What it has to do with this conversation? Not a darn thing.

I have hit a big snag.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#56 2015-05-28 18:20:48

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 4,592

Re: Nohow

I have hit a big snag.

Is that a confession?
Why would you want to hit a snag?
Were you angry at the time?
Are you sorry you did that?
What did it achieve?

snag (noun): sausage; As in, "Bung another snag on the barbie, will ya darl?"

There's a reference to 'snags on the barbie' in the video on this site.

This guy says it a bit differently, but you'll get the idea.

Last edited by phrontister (2017-02-22 00:19:50)


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#57 2015-05-28 22:58:39

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Nohow

I should have said stumbling block. Clue #10 yields no integers for me. This is very bad.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#58 2015-05-29 00:55:39

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 4,592

Re: Nohow

No..."snag" was fine. That was just me going for a humourous response. Your meaning for snag is common here too; the edible version is just colloquial Aussie-speak.

All variables in the puzzle are integers, which I get with my code. I suppose you must have a coding error somewhere.

Last edited by phrontister (2015-05-29 01:04:05)


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#59 2015-05-29 01:54:30

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Nohow

I have found the problem. My copy of the puzzle is different than yours!


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#60 2015-05-29 02:34:43

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 4,592

Re: Nohow

Yes, I agree with that.


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#61 2015-05-29 02:35:39

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Nohow

I changed post #59 just as you were posting.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#62 2015-05-29 02:42:10

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 4,592

Re: Nohow

How did you get a different copy? Transcribing error?


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#63 2015-05-29 02:45:13

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Nohow

I downloaded a .doc file that has /8 instead of /3 for clue #10


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#64 2015-05-29 02:53:51

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 4,592

Re: Nohow

Yes, that was a known transcription error (see the following posts I found in 2009):

They all appeared between 1960 and 1980. I've typed them in rather than scanning them as some of the photocopies are not very good. I was out with a magnifying glass for some of the puzzles in the Rhombus3 folder to try and discriminate between c and e and also 3 and 8 in some puzzles so be warned. I think they are all correct. I haven't myself got round to trying them as yet!! The numbers after the title refers to the number of the puzzle in The Listener Crossword series.

NOHOW, puzzle 1885 by Rhombus
You must have been working from a really poor copy. 
The following need to be changed:
Clue 3:  C=af
Clue 6:  G=(d-z)k'/3
Clue 8:  J=(K+2z)a/3
Clue 9:  K=(n+12z)k'/13
Clue 10:  M=(D+4z)c/3
Clue 11:  n=(N+19z)N/9
Alan Lemm

----------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Ed,
John has spotted a few typos in the puzzle NOHOW. 
Clue 3 should read C = af. 
Clue 10 is ( D + 4z )c / 8
clue 11 is ( N + 19z )N / 9.
Sorry for any inconvenience!!
Cheers, Alastair

My post #1 has the correct version, which I only posted after solving it and making sure it worked.


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#65 2015-05-29 02:59:15

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Nohow

I will now have a chance to solve the problem.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#66 2015-05-29 03:00:34

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 4,592

Re: Nohow

Xlnt! smile


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#67 2015-05-29 03:06:56

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Nohow

I have copied your picture from post#1. I think this can be solved by M.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#68 2015-05-29 03:53:00

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 4,592

Re: Nohow

Hi Bobby,

I've provided a pdf version in my first post as an alternative option to the image.


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#69 2015-05-29 03:54:37

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Nohow

Thanks for the help.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#70 2015-05-30 05:38:55

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 4,592

Re: Nohow

Hi Bobby,

bobbym wrote:

I think this can be solved by M.

Yes it can. Did it! smile Couldn't do it all with M, though...some human input required during the solving process.

Code's a bit messy and big...I think it only just snuck in under the maximum number of characters allowed for an M program. wink

Last edited by phrontister (2015-06-01 12:46:04)


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#71 2015-05-30 06:00:20

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Nohow

That is very good. Mine is also big and not done yet.

I am now officially stuck...


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#72 2015-05-30 21:47:31

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 4,592

Re: Nohow

Hmmm. Time for...I'm not sure what.

Maybe your code contains an error, or the strategy is flawed.

Want to show/tell me your strategy? I might be able to spot something.


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#73 2015-05-30 22:13:25

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Nohow

Yes, I will explain my problem. I do not understand the wording of the question.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#74 2015-05-30 23:20:54

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 4,592

Re: Nohow

Oh, I thought from some things you've said in other posts that you understood it. So we should iron that out first.

The wording is from the 1960s, which is way after your time, and so I can understand why you're might be unsure about it. wink


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#75 2015-05-30 23:24:07

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Nohow

The numbers on the left are of the form _0_0_ but are represented by just _ _ _. So which do you use in later calculations?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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