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Topic review (newest first)

Ricky
2008-04-30 22:25:55

Perhaps not unfair, but still both are rather rude and border-line insulting.  And it's all coming after Mikau said:

Okay, I see your point.

So honestly, you're just beating a dead horse, and you continue to beat it in your last post.  So please stop, both the rudeness and the beating.  It just isn't necessary.

integer
2008-04-30 13:22:42

MathisFun::

I thought that was an unfair comment ...

What was unfair about it?

Actually, I just wish that the world could take a vote on which which musical instrument we should use, and get rid of all others. Seriously, how much more time could we spend becoming better musicans if we only had to learn one musical instrument?

Whats even funnier is, ... we could get rid of all those hemisemidemiquavers.

BTW
Some of you may not realize it, but I am not musical prodigy.

Fixed formatting - Ricky

John E. Franklin
2008-04-30 10:57:17

@mikau,  when I went thru college, I forgot to
read supplementary books in the library that
went along with my studies.  Too bad there
aren't 28 hours in a day, huh?

MathsIsFun
2008-04-30 08:41:36

Apparently facial hair has a lot to do with the success of a language: http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/tamir/archive/2008/04/28/computer-languages-and-facial-hair-take-two.aspx

MathsIsFun
2008-04-29 16:20:23

I thought that was an unfair comment ... it is not always easy to say precise things about languages in a few sentences anyway.

For example describe ".net" (visual studio): many flavors of code (vb c# etc) get "semi-compiled" into a runtime that need a multi-MB "runtime library" ... and that runtime provides lots of pre-compiled routines, and also executes the code, does garbage collection etc. But that is not a proper description unless I want to spend a few pages describing it. Better still just go to Wikipedia smile

mikau
2008-04-29 15:42:04

It appears as if you know little or nothing about computers.

sad okay, now my feelings are hurt. Primarily because thats very true, and I'm just about to receive my associates in computer science.

Seriously... my school is teaching me nothing.

Ricky
2008-04-29 01:30:43

luca-deltodesco wrote:

Wait Ricky, what are you on about? Of course C++ is cross-platform!

and ill assume by not usable on the internet, you mean in the way that java has an internet plugin etc, C++ can be used for server side applications, but Java's plugin is also a pig - i cannot stand it when i open a page and it decides to play like an math for a while before the java plugin loads up.

Cross-platform "executable".  You can not take a windows exe and run it on linux.  Every high level language is cross platform, so there is absolutely no reason to talk about code being cross platform.

Yes, that is what I was focusing on.  And it may be slow, but it works.  Better than being non-existent.  Furthermore, Java excels when it comes to server/client programming, and while possible on C++, the framework just isn't up to what Java has.

Posted by integer:

C++ (with it greatly added features, that I like) will add 30 thousand to several hundred thousand bytes to the 'exe' file length.

Not with the proper compilation options, but yes, typically, you want that stuff in there anyways.  This is really just a nit-pick on my part.

Languages evolve.  I hope they never stop.

C++ is about 25 years old, although if you go from the first official standard, is really only about 10.  Java just a bit more than 10.  Imagine where we'll be in 20 years?  Or 40?  It's kind of scary to think about...

integer
2008-04-28 20:09:31

Actually, I just wish that the world could take a vote on which language we should use, and get rid of all others. Seriously, how much more time could we spend becoming better programmers and computer scientists if we only had to learn one universal programming language?

It appears as if you know little or nothing about computers.
To have a "universal" programming language, it becomes necessary to incorporate ALL computers languages into 1 language.  The reason: TIME.

Use a simple word processor ( the old dos EDLIN ), type a single character, and save the file.

Then use a current word processor program ( microsoft WORD, or any text formatting program) and type a single character, then save.

The simple word processor's save file length: 1 (or perhaps) 3 characters in length.
The commercial complex word processor file length:  most likely several hundred thousand bytes.
It requires more time to process more data.

I like C because it generates a very small  'exe' file.
C++ (with it greatly added features, that I like) will add 30 thousand to several hundred thousand bytes to the 'exe' file length.

At the present time, the entire RTL (run time library) for some languages will be appended to the executable, making it a BLOATED hog of a file.

I want programs to run/execute extremely fast.
I can type about 60 words a minute when creating letters/notes.
The text processor I use (microsoft WORD) is most irritating when I type several characters and then look at the screen and have to wait for a fraction of a second (or many times several seconds) before the characters appear on the screen.   I'm using a 3.4 GHZ w/ 1000 MB ram.

The are some persons who like a Corvett, others a KIA, and some a Mack Truck.  Would you even think that everyone would want to have the same type-kind-model-color vehicle?

Computer languages are here for a purpose:  they apply to different requirements.  Your operating system is effectively a compute language.
I like the differences.

More computer languages will be developed because they serve a purpose.  A word processor itself is a "computer language" that handles/executes the text/instructions given to it.

Therefore, I say, more.  Lets have thousands and thousands of different computer languages.

Languages evolve.  I hope they never stop.

MathsIsFun
2008-04-28 17:06:04

luca-deltodesco wrote:

...but Java's plugin is also a pig - i cannot stand it when i open a page and it decides to play like an ... for a while before the java plugin loads up.

That is *exactly* what tipped me in favor of Flash instead of Java for all my website work.

luca-deltodesco
2008-04-28 16:52:26

Wait Ricky, what are you on about? Of course C++ is cross-platform!

and ill assume by not usable on the internet, you mean in the way that java has an internet plugin etc, C++ can be used for server side applications, but Java's plugin is also a pig - i cannot stand it when i open a page and it decides to play like an math for a while before the java plugin loads up.

MathsIsFun
2008-04-28 11:13:44

I tend to use php, javascript and actionscript because they are web-oriented. And they are actually *similar* languages ... just different enough to be annoying (like "." for putting strings together in php, but "+" in javascript/actionscript  which is quite crazy, as that also adds numbers)

If someone could bring those three languages closer I would be glad.

Ricky
2008-04-28 10:44:43

But I was thinking more along the lines of a standardized language for every requirement rather than having 7 languages for everything. Do we really need both C++ and Java? Perl and Python? Php and html?

C++: Efficiency and large scale.  Not cross platform, not usable on the internet.
Java: Slow, good for large scale.  Cross platform, great for programs that communicate through the internet.

Perl and python you may have a case, from what I've heard they are quite similar, both in structure and use.

Php: Scripting on web pages.  Does not defines what elements are on a page.
HTML: Defines what elements are on a page.  Does absolutely nothing else.

mikau
2008-04-28 10:15:48

Do you really want to be developing large scale projects that communicate between hundreds of computers and databases in the same language that you write to mathematical software in?  Do you really want to develop desktop applications in the same language that you script in?

YES! swear

lol. Okay, I see your point. But I was thinking more along the lines of a standardized language for every requirement rather than having 7 languages for everything. Do we really need both C++ and Java? Perl and Python? Php and html?

Surely there would be consequences in making a 'one size fits all' language rather than a different language specially suited for every purpose. It would need to be carefully designed and probably end up enormous. Still I think the benefits, if it could somehow be pulled off, would be huge.

But I'm just talking out of my hat of course. The notion of a universal programming language that works for everything is Utopian at best.

Ricky
2008-04-28 09:03:34

Actually, I just wish that the world could take a vote on which language we should use, and get rid of all others. Seriously, how much more time could we spend becoming better programmers and computer scientists if we only had to learn one universal programming language?

faint

Do you really want to be developing large scale projects that communicate between hundreds of computers and databases in the same language that you write to mathematical software in?  Do you really want to develop desktop applications in the same language that you script in?

Most languages have a purpose, without many competitors.  C++ allows you to write large projects thanks to OO, but efficiently unlike Java.  C has greater speed than C++, but lacks OO and hence is rather horrible to design large projects in.  Java on the other hand is great for internet and cross platform projects.  C# is nice for making desktop applications with a gui (which java lacks), but without speed (that c++ has), but completely useless when it comes to networking and internet (which java is great for).  Also remember that C# is Windows OS only.  Python and perl are two classic scripting languages, which aren't very good at anything else.  php is great for scripting, but one look at it's name (personal home page hypertext processor) will tell you that it's only meant for web pages, where python and perl are not allowed.

mikau
2008-04-28 08:25:42

luca-deltodesco wrote:

HELL NO

hehehe! Obviously someone likes C++. But why not? Is there anything you can do in C++ that you can't do in C#? or is it just because its your favorite language? (though thats a fair enough reason to me : ) )

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